To hope that some people now understand that it's not somebody's fault they're poor?

[Moomin8]

All of a sudden loads of people have had to claim UC

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/24/britain-benefits-rishi-sunak-claimants-austerity?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Torsten Bell, head of the Resolution Foundation, says people on £50,000 salaries have been anxiously asking him about benefits rates. They’re in for a shock, he says.” Funny, that: before this crisis, those doing alright were adamant that benefit rates were too high. Now, they’re worried it’s the opposite.

I don't agree though that everyone wants to do well

We need to define what 'doing well' is. Making pots and pots of money is not everyone's idea. Having enough to afford the basics and good family relationships count for a lot in many people's books.

Yes, OK you/me might feel a twinge of envy when we go past someone's house which is a mansion with a Porsche or two in the drive and a swimming pool, but then we think twice when we find the husband is a serial adulterer, who doesn't give a *** about you or his family and your own DH is a good decent supportive man.

x2boys

Exactly. It's so patronising by people that have probably never walked through a rough estate like the one I once lived on let alone lived there! If people are saying they know people like this why are they getting huge long diatribes about how could they possible know this to be true? Ummmm, because they live next door to them?

Again it's the minority, of course it is, but it is also a reality.

@Peregrina I GENUINELY think ‘urgh, think of all the CLEANING!’ when I see a big house!! 🤣

It perplexed me that MC UC people think that WC people are ‘jealous’ of everything they have and aspire to be them. No thanks x

it's much easier for the Boris Johnson's and David Camerons of the world to have achieved success from a moneyed background.

Let's not forget an education like theirs doesn't just give them an incredibly good education. It gives them contacts for the rest of their life. The Old School Tie in action. How far would they have got without those contacts?

"It's not what you know, it's who you know" is possibly more true now than it was 40 years ago.

The children of cleaners and waitresses literally saying certain things were not “for them

This is so sad but I've seen it in some parts of my family. If you have generations who have always been told they "can't " do X or should know their place, it's not really surprising I suppose. It's a mindset that fortunately for me was not shared by my parents despite having little money. It was always assumed I'd go to university because I was bright. One of my friends had to leave school at 16 to get a job as they "needed the money". I was stunned as they had quite a bit more money than my parents did.

x2boys, sixthtimelucky - where have I denied that such people exist?

Nevertheless you are still focusing on the individuals. We're telling you that the whole system is wrong, that the values the system espouses encourages the behaviour you see, that it supports the wrong people, that it drives more into desperation. The system effects millions, not individual cases. Create a better system and you will see less of the individual unpleasant cases, which can then be dealt with individually. Create a better system and you restore flagging public trust. Create a better system and you restore social contracts and feelings of belonging, common identity and social responsibility. Go and have a look comparatively and historically and use empiricism to compare directly.

Cut the crap about the middle class background too. You know nothing about me or anyone on here, and some of us do not come from middle class backgrounds. It's a common excuse. I could as easily say that your attitude is a perspective from those who've done well out of the system and don't want their complacency shattered. I have no idea about that either.

I did know a family exactly like that - Porsches, swimming pool, money no object. A very very messy divorce ensued when the children were still quite small and any envious thoughts went right out of my mind.

Yes I’m sure the shock will be there for some

@mathanxiety

1. If you read the string of replies. I was not the person who mentioned - a safety net. I was merely replying to the person who did.

2. You were the person who implied that I had a safety net (when I said that I didn’t). Then asked if I lived in the US because people in the UK would most certainly of had a safety net (growing up anyway).

So from the above comments & even your comment now (even when I said I didn’t have a safety net) I actually asked - what is your point!? Are you trying to say that the people in the US have no safety net whilst people in the UK have? This statement that was derived from your own words, not mine.

3. Mob mentality is when a group of people start homing in on one person. Taking one thing they said out of context & not looking at the whole conversation to make that person look bad.

As for illness. I’ve been ill for years, been in and out of doctors & don’t all sorts of tests. No one can’t tell me what’s wrong. It’s still happening. My daughter started exhibiting the same symptoms I did when I was little.

I’m now trying to self heal both my myself where 35yrs of doctors couldn’t. Trying all sorts of things in hopes I find an answer & so that my child does not have the life I had in illness & finance.

As for knowing what people are going through in the US. I have 4 uncles & 1 aunt who live in NY & Florida. My cousins are out there. We keep in contact regularly so I know what happening. I know how hard it’s been.

Under the normal circumstances I wouldn’t advise just to set up a business. I would advise you to have a job & grow your side hustles. Seeing as we’ve all been on lockdown (in UK that is) if you can work. Might as well try to start your own online business instead of sitting there worrying. It might not work, but it might work. It’s still 50% better odds then if you didn’t do anything at all.

As for DUMB luck. I agree, but for DUMB luck to strike. You need to being trying something. If you’re not trying, how can dumb luck help you? It’s like saying I want to win the lottery but never buying a ticket.

I’m not here to change your views. I can see this is impossible. You have a right to your opinions, as do I. What’s right for me doesn’t mean it’s right for others.

Wishing you & your family good vibes.

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad

Pep talk? I was just being positive. This platform is to connect mums. I’m just one of those women supporting women. If it makes you feel angry, me being positive & trying to supporting you then I’ll stop, BUT I will not be negative & attack because others attack.

I have a child. Fine I might be younger but being older you should have more experience. What I can side step with being physically younger you can side step with knowledge.

You can chose to ignore that your better off then someone in a developing country & just focus on how crap your situation is, but why?

You can see what is happening around the world. So instead of concentrating on the problem concentrate on the solution. There has to be A SOLUTION.

I’m not here to change your mind. Just giving you another point of view. If you feel it’s useless or it doesn’t help you, then you have a right to feel that way.

Just as I have the right to take on board what you’ve said & derive my own conclusion.

I understand where you stand on this point. Thanks for the debate. Hope you & family are safe.

@Iwannabeadored20

Thanks & appreciate your response. Glad others feel the same way too.

N0tJustYoga
You speak of years of illness, and while that is a sad thing to happen, surely you realise that an experience like that in the US would result in financial disaster?

This is because -

• You can be fired with no notice and for any reason including the perception that you have health problems in most US states.
• Medical bills are high even if you have insurance, and can result in extreme financial hardship or even bankruptcy.

You blithely stated that the existence of a safety net makes no difference to an individual's likelihood of making lemonade out of life's lemons ( whether quoting someone else or not, you didn't argue with the idea). This is privilege talking. The privilege of someone who can safely assume there is something to fall back on if a business fails.

I am saying that the non-existence of a safety net keeps hundreds of thousands of people in a position where they have no choice about their job, and no hope of ever starting their own business. How does only 26 weeks of unemployment assistance sound to you?

Why focus on the hand you were dealt, the cards you are looking at, as opposed to the position of some poor woman in Afghanistan? Why wouldn't the fact that you are not there give someone cause for optimism? Because the vast majority of people are realists, and play the hand they are dealt. The here. The now. The me and my dependent children and how to feed and house them. The things that actually matter and are relevant

And many women, looking at the various 4s of spades, 3s of clubs and other dribs and drabs they are holding, wonder what exactly separates them from those women in godforsaken parts.

As to age meaning 'experience' - hah. Even five years experience as a stay at home mother will kill your career chances.

Policymakers speak of female poverty as if it's a given, as if something innate to women holds us back. It's not a given - provide subsidised high quality childcare, pay women a wage that reflects the value of the sort of work they very often do, provide a children's allowance (as Ireland does) and single mothers might be able to get ahead.