To hope that some people now understand that it's not somebody's fault they're poor?

[Moomin8]

All of a sudden loads of people have had to claim UC

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/24/britain-benefits-rishi-sunak-claimants-austerity?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Torsten Bell, head of the Resolution Foundation, says people on £50,000 salaries have been anxiously asking him about benefits rates. They’re in for a shock, he says.” Funny, that: before this crisis, those doing alright were adamant that benefit rates were too high. Now, they’re worried it’s the opposite.

feel lucky that you live in a country that allows you to educate & better yourself with ease.
Friend of mine is a working class single parent, she got ''caught''' (was reported for benefits fraud) 3 months before she graduated, and had all of her meagre benefits stopped. She had no safety net.

I never managed to complete my 4 year course, due to lack of childcare, housing issues, and harassment from the benefits agency.
''with ease'' my arse.

I was thinking about this thread when out a walk there just now.
I don't think we'll see any social change in people's thoughts for a few years.
Obviously we're now seeing people who were doing well suddenly having to access the benefits system and seeing how soul destroying that it is.
But I don't think we'll see a change until a few years down the line, when people who were posting here on mn about how they worked hard, studied hard and climbed the ladder, we're forced to work for £9.20 in a supermarket for longer than they'd have imagined, with a 24 Yr old supervisor telling them what to do... And hating it but having no choice as the bills need paid..
Maybe once this happens and there's no way out but to keep working at tesco etc, maybe then these people who thought nothing will ever touch them as their hard work insulated them from shit happening..
Maybe then we'll see a more compassionate society.

But I'm not holding my breath.

@Thelnebriati Like I said. I DIDN’T have a safety net. I wasn’t the one saying I had one. It’s unlucky what happened to your friend. Did she try finishing her qualifications in the end after she sorted her finance? Is she ever going to try again? Or has she given up?

If the benefits were harassing you. Find another way to make money. Online technology is so powerful now. You don’t have to leave your home to earn money. Did you try looking into the things that stopped you from finishing your 4 year course. Remove or fix those things & then try doing your course again.

There are online courses which you can learn at your own pace & you don’t need to go into class. So childcare is not as big of an issue then if you had to be physically in class.

I never said it was going to be easy. Digging yourself out of the hole you’re in is never going to be easy......but if you keep going. You’ll get out. That was the point I was making.

When I said you’re in a fortunate position. Are you in a developing country, with no food, slum living & unsure whether you’re going to die of hungry or die of a disease where you can’t get medical help?

No matter how bad you have it. Someone out there is going to be in a worse position. So be grateful for what you do have, make the best of it, work hard & you’ll get to where you need to go if you want it badly enough.

@ssd

I owned my own company.....in 2010 I worked myself into hospital. I lost everything that I worked for. I got a job as a receptionist for minimum wage, with a 24yrs old as my manager.

I went through a lot, but I didn’t give up & now I’m in the position because I didn’t give up. There’s no such thing as a dead end job & not being able to go anywhere I this country.

I might fall from grace again due to the Corona Virus. I hope not for the sake of my daughter BUT if I do. I will do what I did the last two times. Work hard, not give up, keep trying and hope that I dig myself out of a hole again from the 3rd time.

Like is said, at least you have food, roof & access to benefits (free money) even though it not a lot. It better then having access to nothing, having NO good or a roof over your head.

Try focusing on the positive.

Your opinions make you sound like you have had a very limited experience, and assume that experience must be the same for everyone.

Online courses are ok for a limited number of things you can study but you cant learn many skills - eg nursing - that way; and people die of poverty in the UK every single day.

feel lucky that you live in a country that allows you to educate & better yourself with ease.

Remind me how much tuition fees are here again, and how much debt the average student leaves with? While you’re at it, remind me how many qualifications there are now for different jobs, and how many jobs there are that don’t ask for umpteen more qualifications than they did 20 years ago, let alone 40?

I think you might find, if you have to start again as I have, that you are out of date.

I have 4 adult youngsters. Eldest very good, can work from home, married, 2 children. His wife has been laid off temporarily.

Fortunately they can survive on his income and wyull have some left over which is really a saving plan as there is nowhere for them to go to spend it. DiL will get paid 80%. I have no worries with them.

2nd son has significant health problems so on disability. I don't have to worry with him

Youngest son also in a well job and no worries over money. He can work from home.

Our only daughter, of our 4 moved out to Cansda 11 years ago. Very happy there and has citizenship. She also went through uni. Because she works in H.R management in hospitality and tourism she is temporarily laid off

She will get 3 months employment insurance money which wont even cover her rent. That's her lot. We will be helping her out

Unfortunately where she lives now in Canada is very isolated. She moved down with her ex for his work then they split after 8 years. She stayed there. He left.

She is going to move back up states to somewhere like Vancouver once this is over. She is resourceful like me. I know she will be ok. Its still a sorry.

To put another side low paid witk needs to be done by someone as offices dont clean themselves, supermarkets need to be stocked and staffed and so on.

I worked cleaning when mine were little for a 2nd income in the evening around the children. Certainly not what I wanted or continued to do.

Not everyone is in a position to get better paid jobs

What this all proves is that in life you are better off relying on yourself.

And this you’ll get to where you need to go if you want it badly enough.

Oh yes. Wanting it badly enough will overturn all the economic disadvantage, snobbery and prejudice on every basis through interviews. I’m sorry, the talk about someone is always worse off is genuinely good to remember, but the rest earns a thanks for the laugh at this time.

@Thelnebriati

If you feel my experience is limited, then that’s your opinion. Yes there is a lot you can’t do with online courses, but due to your position you can’t always choose what you want. You can only choose what’s in front of you. So choose an online course & a line of online work that has a good possibility of taking you to the next step.

When you finally make it to the next step. Repeat the process. Yes. Many people die of poverty in the UK. Not as many as people in developing countries I assure you.

Life isn’t fair. You blaming & complaining isn’t going to make it any fairer. You doing something positive to help & grow you will.

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad

I’m glad you agree about others being in a worse off position. Snobbery, racism, economic disadvantage will always be there. Even if people don’t say it out loud, doesn’t mean they’re not thinking it.

Do you really want it badly enough? Saying it doesn’t mean you want it. It’s your actions that show you how badly you want something.

I’m not here to make anyone feel crap. I’m letting you know you can do it. You can actually do this! You’ve given birth to a child, you are where you are now! You’re a lot stronger than you think.

Just stop focusing on what you can’t do & focus on what you can do. One step at a time. It might take 10yrs it might take 15yrs.....but at least you can say I did it.

@N0tJustY0ga, do you mind me asking how old you are?

@ThrowingGoodAfterBad

Graduated from my second degree 3 years ago. It cost me £40,000 in total. I was a single mother during this degree. I worked 3 jobs to pay for childcare, rent & my degree.

I applied for every loan, grant and any help I could get (there wasn’t much I could get as I already had a degree). I’m 40yrs myself. So I don’t think my info is out of date.

Due to the nature of my job I cannot work during the Corona Virus. I’m just as scared as everyone else BUT I’m looking into online courses myself right now! I’m going on to YouTube to figure out how to build a website (it will take me forever) & it might be a shit website BUT I will not stop me trying.

I get shit because I’m an ethnic minority, I’m from a working class background & the fact I was a single mum. So what. I just focused on the solutions. Not the problems. Cause the solutions are the only things that can get you out!

@ssd

I’m 40yrs.

YANBU. It's hard to get out of poverty. We all have different factors in our lives which lead to our economic conditions. Geography, background, experiences, personality, luck etc.

My lovely Dad (RIP) taught me that you should only ever look down on someone when you’re offering them a hand to help them up. We are all human and we are all dealing with different challenges on a daily basis. A little compassion (especially now in the midst of a global pandemic) goes far further than sneery, judgemental snobbery.

Just be nice, it’s not that feckin difficult!

You had a safety net lucky you.....I myself like many others don’t.

Do you live in the US, @N0tJustY0ga?

i.e. a place where there really is no safety net.

Because if you live in the UK you absolutely do have a safety net. Or at least you did when you were growing up.

I lost everything that I worked for. I got a job as a receptionist for minimum wage, with a 24yrs old as my manager.

I went through a lot, but I didn’t give up & now I’m in the position because I didn’t give up. There’s no such thing as a dead end job & not being able to go anywhere I this country.

I might fall from grace again due to the Corona Virus.

'Fall from grace' is a very interesting choice of words that gives the lie to your denial of feeling superior.

Massive Freudian slip there.

Prosperity isn't a state of grace.

@mathaxiety

If you read my reply. Then you should have read who I was replying to & their statement. The words fall from grace was said by some one else. I repeated it so they knew what I was referencing to.

Apart from that.....what did you think about the rest of the reply? Or did you want to focus on the negative - fall from grace.

Let me know your thoughts Freud.

@AngryTruckDriver

As I said to @mathanxiety...

If you read my reply. Then you should have read who I was replying to & their statement. The words fall from grace was said by some one else. I repeated it so they knew what I was referencing to.

Apart from that.....what did you think about the rest of the reply?

Or did you want to join the mob (aka bullying) mentality.

@mathanxiety

I have live in the US so understand your feeling on this. The UK does have more of a safety net then the US.

What is the point you are trying to make here. That I got to where I got to because I had a safety net & it’s harder in the US because there is no safety net?

It an assumption seeing as you don’t know the whole story, but let’s say you’re right. I had a safe my net & I used it.

Is that the excuse you are going to give yourself for not trying....because the US doesn’t have a safety net....then it’s impossible?

Statically you have a WAY lower rate of succeeding but it not impossible. So why don’t you look at the positives - as in at least you are not in a developing country.

I repeat. I not here to make people feel shit. What I’m trying to say is that you can do it. Stop listening to society dictating what you can or cannot do.

The innocuous comment was someone saying upthread that the hours worked are up to the employees not the employer.

Wish i hadnt name called actually cos then the rest of the post would have been left up Where i said that must be why all those people are risking their lives squashed together on the Tube during a pandemic. Because they are in charge of the hours they get and how they work

@N0tJustY0ga

I think you talk a lot of sense but people can only see things when they have had some success already in their lives. You have to have had a taste of it to drive you through the difficulties, I think.

I don't disagree with you, though - the way to achieve is to focus on the solutions whilst acknowledging the problems but not letting them dictate or block your path. Easier said than done but ironically once you get your head in the right place you do move mountains quickly. More energy is expended in not doing the constructive things.

But it's much easier for the Boris Johnson's and David Cameron's of the world to have achieved success from a moneyed background. Both lazy men although Johnson much more so than Cameron. Would either of them achieved much if they hadn't had the best that money could buy?

If they'd come from rough estates and gone to sink schools, and said they wanted to be Prime Minister, there is a good chance they would have been laughed at for getting ideas above their station and why couldn't they get a nice job on the line at the car factory?