To hope that some people now understand that it's not somebody's fault they're poor?

[Moomin8]

All of a sudden loads of people have had to claim UC

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/24/britain-benefits-rishi-sunak-claimants-austerity?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Torsten Bell, head of the Resolution Foundation, says people on £50,000 salaries have been anxiously asking him about benefits rates. They’re in for a shock, he says.” Funny, that: before this crisis, those doing alright were adamant that benefit rates were too high. Now, they’re worried it’s the opposite.

I am pretty appalled by some views on here about benefit shirkers and low paid workers who choose that life through laziness. I mean that is such a tiny minority.

BUT I find it an incredible display of inverted snobbery when people say they know people that are actually just lazy or riding the benefit system are told they are making it up! It's an irony that people who don't live in deprived areas or in social housing and are sitting in their middle class homes cannot actually contemplate or believe there are some people around who really do do fuck all.

And your one or two individual examples overrule the systematic disadvantages in a country whose top men - top men you’ll note - claim they can do 3 or 4 full time jobs, each paid many multiples of the wildest figures for minimum wage? Who can take home more than a years pay for one after dinner speech going on about how shit the poorest are? What are those land ownership figures again, I’ll go find them in a minute.

The system affects millions, not just the odd one or two. Nor, as a op mentioned, are the non-workers among those with family wealth held to the same standards.

amp.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/17/who-owns-england-thousand-secret-landowners-author 1% own half of all land in England, but those born to centuries of disadvantage and lack of opportunities just need to try harder in a time when work does not pay for the cost of living?

Remember folks, the plural of anecdotes is not evidence.

Also, I would rather live in a society with decent benefit provision and support when there is a 1/10 person who is a scrounger (whatever you define one as) rather than this current one which kicks you while your down and stigmatises people for DARING to be unemployed....

You know something has gone a bit wrong when Jobcenters actively hinder jobseeking with sanctions while making employers die inside.

PS I am someone with a highly strategic skill set, an earner in the top 10% and three degrees but have been unemployed and a benefit claimer in my adult life too.

Whoa! Go me I've killed the thread. I must be so damn GOOD that no-one could possibly add to what I've said...

Anyway, to summarize anyone who cares more about whether someone is in a council house or is unemployed more than how they treat others can go suck a bag of dicks.

@JohnMcCainsDeathStare (people are still googling 'what is an anecdote'...)

Ive no idea what helena said

But ‘calm down’ has got to be the worst comment in the English language for having exactly the opposite effect

She called someone a 'fucking sociopath' for making a completely innocuous comment. Can't remember who.

@Marginal - In that case, they can suck an even bigger bag of dicks considering I bet they use them all the time not knowing what one is.

When I went into retail it could be a fairly good career if you worked hard and at one time I was a high earner for my position, but as minimum wage has increased not so much now, people in entry level retail jobs have to be paid not far off what I am earning with over 20 years experience and a lot more responsibility

marginal

What ws the innocuous comment?

Was...obviously was

A lot of Calvinists on here.

(Googling...'what is a Calvinist'....)

That and the shocking lack of empathy for jobseekers - it's a lot like dating except you are even less likely to get dinner. Or anything payed for in fact. I was actually about to start a jobseeking 'holiday' so I could get a mental health respite before I got my last (and only) job offer.

'what is a Calvinist'"

You're poor? That's YOUR FAULT, that is.

The USA runs on this principle.

Oh calvinists are MEAN

I come from a working class family, went to state school. Most of, if not all of my secondary school year are on benefits & low income jobs......I didn’t really have a life to afford to go anywhere quick in the world & I’ve been through & seen a many horrible situations.

BUT I decided to take a stand a long time ago & I refused to stay in the level in which I was born. So I worked my arse off & (I’m still fighting my way), I can afford to live in a nice area, pay for my daughter to go to private school & still trying to improve myself by going & applying for my executive MBA.

So it does actually annoy me a little when the less fortunate go ON & ON about being less fortunate. Go ON & ON about how the rich should support the less fortunate.

I will support anyone who is working hard to want & do better for themselves, BUT actually how many do that? How many people say they want to do better but do nothing to help themselves. Or they try for a few months, maybe even a few years & then give up because it’s too hard. Then expect to receive hand outs just because they couldn’t be bothered to better themselves.

Just because someone’s born rich, it’s ok to “hate” them or “berate” them for being rich? They didn’t ask for it. Just as people do not ask to be born poor.

Life is what you make it. If you want something badly enough. You can have it. Just feel lucky that your not in a developing country that view women as a gender as nothing & children to be something to be abused & sold.

You live in the UK & have the freedom & support to better yourself. All you have to do is put the work in, unlike developing countries. So if YOU decided not to put the work in. Have some respect for yourself & at least have the balls to blame yourself & not others.

No one ever said life was easy & yes you might have been dealt a shitty hand, but feel lucky that you live in a country that allows you to educate & better yourself with ease.

Sitting there blaming others on what you don’t have is not going to change your life.

"Oh calvinists are MEAN"

Nah, they're just shitheads.

Any society which tolerates the existence of billionaires is a sick society.

Planet Earth is massively in debt overall. To who? Alpha Centauri?

Thank you for summarising....

Reading the theological system of John Calvin was boring the crap out of me....

I'm just glad it wasn't people who wore a certain brand of boxer shorts!

Shitheads makes more sense to me...👍

Nah, they're just shitheads

Fair point

I will support anyone who is working hard to want & do better for themselves, BUT actually how many do that? How many people say they want to do better but do nothing to help themselves. Or they try for a few months, maybe even a few years & then give up because it’s too hard. Then expect to receive hand outs just because they couldn’t be bothered to better themselves

^this comes across as incredibly superior.

Assuming that you are better than other people based on what?

For what it’s worth, I came from a shit background, terrible upbringing, single mother. You name it, the box was ticked.

Now I’m earning very well, doing very well.

Do I, for one second, believe it was only down to my hard work and my hard work only??

No. I’m not stupid enough to believe that I’d have made it without a decent safety net in place.

That safety net meant I was one of the lucky ones.

Agreed.

Disease and poverty are great levellers.

@FelicisNox Something people in this country have only ever seen happening on tv in other parts of the world and never believed or thought it would happen here.

It's not only a leveller, it's a huge shock to the entire system that we all took for granted.

Last week 'I can't get toilet paper' seemed like a huge disaster.

Bit different today...

@Iggly. You chose to see what I wrote as coming over superior.

I’m looking at both sides poor & rich. You just decided to make a statement that portrayed your opinion.

You had a safety net lucky you.....I myself like many others don’t. So what is your point exactly?? That you pity the poor? That you’ll help them & side with this thread because you’re lucky enough to be in your position?

Me telling the truth isn’t being superior....it’s me telling the truth.