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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I didn't do anything wrong....did I?

593 replies

Funkyslippers · 26/03/2020 16:40

DD desperate to see her friend who lives a few streets away. She made brownies and we dropped them on her doorstep, went back onto the pavement around 12 feet away, DD called her and she came to the door, took the brownies and said thank you.

They then call each other while we're walking home (social distancing all the way but not many people around) and her older sister shouts in the background "her mum let her do that? That was stupid!!!" meaning we shouldn't have brough the brownies round to her house. I couldn't see anything wrong with it. I mean, the postman delivers mail to houses each day. Am I missing something? Or is she worried about eating contaminated food - we washed our hands thoroughly during the process.

OP posts:
WeAllHaveWings · 26/03/2020 23:35

@Mothership4two I applaud your patience 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

And again (4th time now) - it is a fixed mindset, you can't change it.

The only answer is the government needs to bring in a full lock down to do what people should have been able to work out for themselves.

Mothership4two · 26/03/2020 23:42

On a cheery note: John Lednicky, a virologist who studies coronaviruses at the University of Florida has said that virus particles "are typically expelled when an infected person coughs or sneezes... but speaking also releases droplets. The heavier of these will fall to the ground, but smaller, lighter particles can travel further and linger in the air, and are more likely to infect other people, you can inhale those, but they can also come into contact with your eyes,” (so very much like a malevolent cloud as one poster said).

There is also a possibility that it can be spread through faecal matter when flushing the loo (yuk) like SARS “If you use a flush toilet, you create an aerosol full of infection” says Lednicky.

Unfortunately, CV has got a hefty head start on research, so studies are playing catch up.

Eckhart · 26/03/2020 23:43

Think a bit of common sense would go a long way at the moment

I wholeheartedly agree, @Mothership4two. Obviously it would be best for us all to be on individual planets, regarding the virus. However, regarding concessions for humanity and human contact, it seems (and I never thought I'd say this) that Boris and I agree: leaving food on someone's doorstep is an act of kindness. If you lack the humanity, take it up with Boris. If you believe that children leaving brownies on doorsteps of friends as gifts is the problem, in the face of all those crowds on beaches and in national parks at the weekend, there's no arguing with your version of logic.

Mothership4two · 26/03/2020 23:45

Thank you Wings. There isn't going to be a 5th time Smile

Eckhart · 26/03/2020 23:46

@WeAllHaveWings Stating the same thing 'for the 4th time now' is also a fixed mindset. Can you not see that?

Eckhart · 26/03/2020 23:49

@WeAllHaveWings You still haven't answered my question.

For the 3rd time, now:

Which rule did the OP break? And if she didn't break a rule, isn't it down to individual discretion? Go on, give me an answer, please? A nice, straightforward answer? If you're able?

Eckhart · 26/03/2020 23:53

@Mothership4two

There isn't going to be a 5th time

No, because if you keep repeating the same unfounded argument over and over, it doesn't equal proof.

Mothership4two · 27/03/2020 00:14

And the logic is DON'T TAKE UNNECESSARY RISKS. This was an unnecessary risk imo. We all live on the one planet so we have to be careful.

YOUR logic defeats me @Eckhart. What has people flouting social distancing at the weekend (not around here) got to do with potentially infecting a family through a thoughtless act? Do you think two wrongs make a right?

I don't think I lack humanity in showing concern for this family. That you think that putting them and others at risk in order to show an unnecessary act of kindness I find mindboggling.

BTW my DH and I are trying to show little acts of kindness by getting 'necessary' supplies for elderly neighbours, walking the dog of a woman in the vulnerable group (twice a day) and signing up for NHS voluntary work. Hardly lacking in humanity!

Mothership4two · 27/03/2020 00:23

No, because if you keep repeating the same unfounded argument over and over, it doesn't equal proof.

I am going on latest studies and scientific opinion. There hasn't been time for long term studies, the scientific community is playing catch up. You obviously haven't read my posts properly. Proof is difficult to come by at the moment. You will probably have your 'proof' after this is over which will be a bit too late. So in the meantime I am using commonsense and not putting anyone in unnecessary harm's way.

If you want to risk it to try to win an argument or because there isn't a specific 'rule' to follow, be my guest. Just don't come round here with any brownies!

Mothership4two · 27/03/2020 00:29

@WeAllHaveWings Stating the same thing 'for the 4th time now' is also a fixed mindset. Can you not see that?

Or it's just that I don't agree with you. Each time I have answered a post about why the food couldn't have been contaminated, when there is a small risk that it was.

RedRedScab · 27/03/2020 00:30

Why are people STILL pushing the boundaries??

People like you are the reason we'll soon all be confined to our houses for weeks. Cheers OP.

OrchidJewel · 27/03/2020 00:34

My mam dropped a load of lovely bakes to my door yesterday. We are in Ireland though.

The 1 walk a day rule is ridiculous imo. I take my kids on bikes to an empty green 3 times a day and don't have to worry. I honestly don't get that UK rule. Obviously it's common sense about where you go and when

Eckhart · 27/03/2020 00:37

The government has specifically told us, in these straitened times, that dropping food on people's doorsteps is advisable. If your 'latest studies' and 'scientific opinion' trump the government, I suggest you contact the prime minister.

Funny how you said you weren't going to state your opinion again, and then did. Feels like you're on the defensive. I'll leave the last word to you, if you want it. But I think you'd be better to put it to Boris and his team of advisors. You clearly know better than they do.

Eckhart · 27/03/2020 00:41

@RedRedScab What boundary did op push?

EarringsandLipstick · 27/03/2020 00:50

All of the experts that I have heard are clear that the main risk comes from the person-to-person transmission of the virus, and when someone touches their face (you cannot, for example, contract it through skin-to-skin contact); and that in this case, with this virus, on certain hard surfaces, it will remain (in a much weakened form) longer than viruses typically do, and again, if you touch those surfaces, and touch your face, you may transmit it. Hence the constant reminder about hand-washing. When out and about, it is really hard to a) avoid people b) avoid viral contact c) not touch your face and d) wash your hands. So this is the main reason for the social distancing and isolating rules.

However, it is still a virus and operates as such! It operates differently, in certain respects, to other viral illnesses, and you are right Mother, we don't know all about this yet but it's a virus, not bacteria - e.g. like E.Coli - so it can't be spread by contact with food, in any meaningful way.

So you are partly correct, but what those of us who think this was fine to do are trying to say, is that the risk is so small as to not be worth concentrating all this effort on. The other risks are way, way more significant and overdoing it on something not relevant just doesn't help.

Back to your brownies and droplets point, that you keep repeating, without any recognition of what anyone else has posted in response!, let's say they do sneeze all over it before they give it in to the neighbour (this is firstly so so unlikely as no normal person does this), unless said neighbour is going to face-plant on the brownies very shortly afterwards, and potentially contract the virus, it's just not a reasonable proposition. Eating it is not a form of transmission.

Look, I know you don't agree with this, and that's ok. But allow other people the courtesy of making different choices, including OP, as long as they are following Government instructions and not causing harm
(said hopefully Grin)

user3274826 · 27/03/2020 00:55

I had some neighbours I've never met leave a goodybag of sweets in party bags on my doorstep with a note saying 'don't sorry, we washed hands and disinfected everything'. I thought it was lovely, and I don't see how it is and riskier than buying any packaged item in a supermarket. Likewise takeaway food.

Mothership4two · 27/03/2020 01:01

Thanks I will then. No I said I wasn't going to trot out the same information about droplet contamination, not that I was going to stop giving my opinion. Again you didn't quite get it did you?

I am glad you have such faith in the PM and the Govt that they know everything about this relatively new virus in a fast changing world. You do realise that they too are taking scientific advice?

We do drop food in the form of shopping round to elderly neighbours, I just wouldn't cook them a cake or a meal atm and I expect they would refuse it.

You keep subtly insulting me, but I haven't done so to you previously - so who's on the defensive?

Furries · 27/03/2020 01:11

Disclaimer - I’ve had wine!

I am still astounded by the absolute CF’ery that I’m seeing on here. What I’m about to post will most likely lead to me me being banned, but if a couple of people see it beforehand then I don’t care.

Those of you, with your crap excuses/work-arounds/bends in the rules. I really hope in 3 months time you can look back and feel comfortable with how you went about life..

Stay the fuck at home. YOU might feel fine - doesn’t mean you aren’t a carrier. Those who do display symptoms will hopefully isolate for the recommended timeframe, but there are many more who won’t display symptoms. They are going to pass this on with no knowledge they’re doing so, which is why it is so important that we all try to do what we can to isolate.

Why the fuck isn’t this hitting home with everyone?

Eckhart · 27/03/2020 01:20

unless said neighbour is going to face-plant on the brownies very shortly afterwards

Amusing image :)

We are mostly going to get cv. We will mostly survive. We cannot stamp out its every iteration. There is a risk here, but it's negligible. You might as well suggest we stop breathing.

The crowded tubes need addressing. The groups buying fish n chips on beaches need addressing. The builders being forced to work en mass need addressing. Supermarkets need to address queuing and overcrowding. Gatherings in the countryside (or anywhere) need addressing.

The little girl delivering brownies to her friend whilst respecting social distance?

Mothership4two · 27/03/2020 01:38

But allow other people the courtesy of making different choices

And you too. OP asked and several ppl said that actually maybe you did do something wrong. I think the risk was minimal but it was a risk and unnecessary. Just because we have a difference of opinion doesn't make me wrong and you right or the other way round.

My droplets post was in response to Eating it is not a form of transmission posts. We do not know that for sure. If its on the food or container (from droplets in the kitchen or direct touching - it doesn't have to be coughed or sneezed on) and you ingest it, I would say (just my opinion based on expert opinion) there is a high risk of contracting CV. The reason we are asked not to touch our faces is because we have three potential routes for infection ie eyes, nose and mouth. You don't have to faceplant it unless you want to Vicar of Dibley style Grin. If it is possible to somehow kill the virus orally (doubtful but OK), well if the food or container has been contaminated and then you touch your face - bingo.

On MN posts people debate, disagree and agree. I have no control over others so how can I allow other people the courtesy of making different choices. Which basically means you don't agree with me Lipstick. All I can say is ditto. I think I have come across as caring more about the OP and her brownies than I actually do, but she asked, I answered and gave my reasons.

1forAll74 · 27/03/2020 02:17

Someone told me today,that it's best not to send any letters to anyone at this present time. ( contamination ) I thought it would be ok, as people are still getting mail delivered. I write quite a lot of letters to family and friends, so now it's put me off a bit..

I have just written a longish letter to someone, and put a few old photo's in the letter. Better not send it now, as the old photo's are quite special and precious. My letter has to travel about 180 miles away,and has to be handled by many I suppose.

flossyflorenceflounces · 27/03/2020 05:13

I'd have binned them immediately. We are picking up post in gloves and junk goes straight in the outdoor bin, the rest stays in the porch unopened.

Pishposhpashy · 27/03/2020 07:44

Someone told me today

Who told you that?

GreytExpectations · 27/03/2020 08:55

Mumsnet, pay attention, this is really important: People are allowed to disagree with each other. I know that is an unusual idea on here but maybe just remember that. You don't need to insult people because they disagree, maybe just act like adults and understand all points of views.

At the end of the day, no rules were broken, no boundary pushed and no loop hole used. It's not hard and it's been repeated endlessly on this thread. It's OK if you don't agree with the actions the OP took and the others PPs opinion but they aren't wrong so no need for the insults, accusations and false information

Sooverthemill · 27/03/2020 08:57

@GreytExpectations Star

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