Schools reopening before May half term?

[Manchestertimes]

What's everyone's opinion on when the schools will reopen? I think they will reopen a few weeks after Easter.

@Appuskidu wouldn't it be wonderful if the DFE did contact heads and base decisions on that. But sadly, I can't see that happening.
More like a Thursday evening announcement to open the following Monday implementing social distancing ...

You’d think schools would be asked wouldn’t you ffs but yep I guess not

They’ve probably not even thought that might be a problem!

And they'll probably say - open schools to those who want to go and also or

Oops pressed post too soon!

We no doubt will be expected to provide education to those in school as well as those who choose to keep their children at home.
I suppose those staff who are vulnerable could work from home to provide the remote learning but I still foresee complications!

I think june.Hopefully the peak will be over and the curve would of flattened which is what they are looking for.

So hopeonh to go back soonest.
I have been a supply teacher and am now permanent. Not all supply is useless! People do supply for all sorts of reasons and most are very good, and not only day to day -you will get people perfectly willing to do long term supply. I would bet happily support supply teachers to get swiftly into the groove.

An erroneous ‘bet’ in there. I mean I would very happily support supply teachers...

I didn’t mean to be negative about supply teachers at all-I’m really sorry if it came across that way-I have done supply myself before.

What was happening in that week before the schools closed is that our staff started dropping like flies, our usual regular supplies were unavailable and the agencies just had nobody left. We managed to get a few people for whole/half days but nobody for longer than a day and when you’re trying to staff and help set up 5 different classes like that-on a day/half daily basis, it’s hard work. You almost have to explain the same amount of stuff to someone who’s there for the morning as to someone who’s there for a fortnight. Obviously if we could have got 5 long term supply teachers, they would have been a different matter. I worry that they won’t be available should be suddenly reopen as every other school will be in the same situation.

@Appuskidu I think you may find a lot of supply teachers will be keen for work when the lockdown lifts. Many are not getting any protection under government schemes.

I don’t think any of it will be normal, ideal, up to usual standards etc but that is true of every job now

@strawberryblondestar

You may be right. Though, a number of the supply teachers we normally use were unavailable in March due to health complaints of their own. It was actually these health issues that made them leave permanent jobs and go and do supply, so weren’t able to risk coming in. That could be just that small sample though.

If only supply pools were still under the control of the LEA, then the heads could let them know how many teachers were missing and they could distribute supplies where they were needed.

With academies and private supply agencies, things are ever so much more difficult...!

@Mosseywossey
I am well aware that staff - student ratios apply. I’ve been a teacher for 15 years. However, in my experience, the majority of school staff would not fall in to the vulnerable group, and instead it would be a small minority as with other workplaces.
I can see that this problem could affect a small primary more than a large secondary if they were unlucky to have lots of staff who happened to fall into this group but that shouldn’t be the norm.
My point is that this alone should not be a reason to keep schools closed. Yes, children might have a change of teacher / routine. Yes, it might be necessary to do some mixing of year groups. The quality of education will no doubt not be up to the usual standard, especially if there is a lot of supply being brought in. In some circumstances schools may only be able to open to some year groups on certain days if staffing is an issue. However all of these would probably be better than the current set up.
I’m not saying schools should go back tomorrow. It 100% should be based on when the science indicates it would be sensible to do so.
However, these are unprecedented times and we all have to recognise that things will have to work a bit differently and adapt / compromise. Realistically, it is highly likely that most of the country will get back to work whilst the vulnerable still need to isolate so schools are going to have to find a way to accommodate this.

I also mean no criticism of supply teachers - I know there are some brilliant ones who no doubt would be happy to step on and help. But I think we all know that it is more difficult with short term supply for the usual teaching / behaviour standards to be maintained. Not through any fault of the supply teachers :)

Realistically, it is highly likely that most of the country will get back to work whilst the vulnerable still need to isolate so schools are going to have to find a way to accommodate this.

I’m actually starting to wonder if it will be the opposite. At the end of the 12 weeks, ‘vulnerable’ people will be told they have to go back to work to facilitate the opening of schools.

I’d be interested to know what schools here would look like without the vulnerable groups in-I’m sure there is a cross section of teachers here who would know. Maybe I’ll do a straw poll.

Generally as a response to this thread my school stated it could only have 35 students per class max and even then the would be reluctant to do it

35 with social distancing?

MKMummy that seems about right for our school too

I don’t think any of us are under the illusion that social distancing will be viable - it will be a vague effort in a rush to get the uk functioning again before we are all bankrupt

Its not just the vulnerable group that was missing. Everyone with a temp or new cough had to isolate for 7 days and everyone who had a family member with a temp or cough was home for 14 days. The problem is a pretty standard, mild cold can pass round a workplace easily. This is causing problems in care homes and NHS which is why they are so desperate gor testing. Now obviously its only for 2 weeks and the person comes back - but the liklihood of several members of staff being in this position is high and on a rolling basis and in addition to those shielding.
I am optimistic schools will find new ways of working and re-open in some form. Parents might have to accept that schools will open and shut regularly and at short notice depending on staffing levels that day/week if the self-isolating and shielding rules apply still.

I don’t think we can look at China as to what strategy we use. I don’t think their numbers are accurate not to mention their lockdown was a harsh, enforced lockdown. We haven’t done that. We’ve still got idiots out sunbathing in parks.

Maybe this will change the structure of education in terms of learning. What I do know is teachers need a break and social distancing will be impossible in schools.

I’m home with my 11, 10 and 7 year old. I’m also working part time. Both my 10 and 7 year old have special needs. The 7 year old attends a specialist school. It’s hard and at points very stressful but I’m grateful we’re healthy not to mention alive.

I think schools will either go back in June or it’ll be September. My 10 year old with special needs is in mainstream and going in for a few weeks when she is already highly stressed that “the virus might kill us all” would be unsettling for her. She also has a ft 1:1 so how they’d socially distance from her I don’t know.

We are using social distancing in our classes at the moment for the key worker children. It's an infant school in an old Victorian building. Keeping desks 2m apart etc we can fit a maximum of 8 children in the classrooms. Some of the classrooms downstairs in reception would need rearranging to fit children in and at least one classroom is smaller than the others. We have one other room we could put children in - our computer room.

So maximum if all classrooms used would be 70-80. That's about 25-30% of our total school population as a maximum.

So maximum if all classrooms used would be 70-80. That's about 25-30% of our total school population as a maximum.

Would you have enough teaching staff to open like that with 8 or so children on each room?

I guess if we did open like that with some children coming in each day, but with only 25/30% max in at any time, you’d still have 5/10/20% (however many you’ve got coming in) of key worker children who’d get priority for those places.

@Macaroni46, @Appuskidu, I work in the DfE, we contact every school in England every day to see how many are open, staffing situation, number of children in attendance.
People in the DfE, DWP and other govt depts are working their socks off to keep things running
It will a Government decsion when the schools reopen, not a departmental one

@ted27

Interesting. Do you have figures for the overall ‘fit and well’ staff numbers for each school? Or just numbers of the ones that are in each day providing childcare?

Would you have enough teaching staff to open like that with 8 or so children on each room?

To keep with ratios it would only need one teacher or TA per class I guess.

Teachers available to work once at risk are removed are: 7 out of a possible 11, though two are 50% PT (so 6) and one is new to school this Easter covering a mat leave so has only met the children once or twice.
TAs available would be 7 out if a possible 12 I think. At least 2 are PT and one is a 1:1. One of two management would be in, HT is in an at risk group, as is the HLTA and the Learning Mentor. Office staff are available. About half the lunch time assistants.

So yes we could cover it but it'd be childcare more than education.

Plus we need the staff who are at risk and some of the teaching staff in school still providing home learning activities as we couldn't offer FT education to all children, only PT.

@Ted27

I’m going to have to call you out on that one. The DfE does not contact schools everyday. Schools upload an Excel spreadsheet to the department daily, that’s not the DfE contacting every school. The DfE speaks to LAs via video conferencing several times a week. If your on the naughty list ‘other’ agencies may also also be on the call.