Schools reopening before May half term?

[Manchestertimes]

What's everyone's opinion on when the schools will reopen? I think they will reopen a few weeks after Easter.

Public opinion drive the Gvt to close schools. Public opinion likely to drive opening. How about those teachers desperate to go back - to teach the children we care about and who are safer in school - go back, together with the children whose parents understand the need for education -and let the rest stay off and 'self-isolate as long as they like.

I’m not sure it was public opinion that closed the schools, I think it was scientific advice.

How about those teachers desperate to go back - to teach the children we care about and who are safer in school - go back, together with the children whose parents understand the need for education -and let the rest stay off and 'self-isolate as long as they like.

How would that work in practice? The children most likely to be kept at home are also the ones most at risk of abuse. And who would set, check and mark the work/ make contact with all those still self-isolating?

@Alkaloise there are people on here who say they’ll keep their kids off til there’s a vaccine/no risk of getting the virus.

This is clearly not realistic as society needs to get back to work ASAP.

@Appuskidu I’m not sure it was public opinion that closed the schools, I think it was scientific advice.

Actually most had planned closures BEFORE the government advice because they had dangerously low staff levels once the vulnerable were advised to stay home.

Appuskidi

Comparing us to Denmark isn't really feasible.
Their population is 6 million thereabouts; ours in the uk is around 66 million.

There are 9 million people alone in London

We are densely populated in areas of the uk. Social distancing in schools in the UK will not work for many reasons - classroom sizes, number of pupils , health and safety, ratios. etc etc

Whenever it happens I can see it being phased, possibly by areas and probably by year groups.

18th March, Chief Medical Officer: "Closing schools has big knock-on effects across society and has to be justified for very strong reasons. And the evidence for doing this appears to be quite weak."

Not even a month since that was the view at the top.

I don’t really understand the argument that schools cannot possibly reopen as there won’t be enough staff as the vulnerable teachers will have to stay home. Why would schools have a higher proportion of vulnerable staff members than say a care home or a hospital, none of which have had to close through this crisis due to staffing levels, as far as I am aware.
I’m not saying it won’t be a problem but I don’t understand why it would affect schools more than other workplaces where staffing numbers have to meet certain ratios.

MKmummy123 - its not that schools have a higher proportion of staff off. Its that the proportion of staff to children has a certain point where its not safe - particulary as classrooms have a physical limit to the number of children that fit in them. 1 teacher shielding means 30 children need to be rehoused. Then children study very different things in very different ways in each year groups so its not as simple as saying 5 reception children can go into a year 6 class so each classroom is only squeezing a few extra children. Its manageable to a point then the balance tips.

@MKmummy123 Plus when hospitals and care homes are understaffed the patients don't take advantage of the situation to actively start causing more trouble!

@JungleGiraffe are you for real?

@Macaroni46 What? Please enlighten us about how much intentional trouble all those covid patients on ventilators are causing Are they gleefully doing everything they can to distract the nurses from their actual job?

Macaroni46 they've posted it in words I wouldn't use, but think back to your own school days and how kids took a lend if there was a supply teacher.
I worked in a school that didn't retain staff well, but part of the problem was lots of short term supply. The student behaviour got worse due to (in part) staffing issues, so more staff left, which created more issues, which meant more staff left.

Students are more unsettled when there's change in routine, some actively tru to create problems or fuss, and even good kids can push it.

I think things must operate very differently in schools. We need a teacher in front of a class of 30-if, in a school with eg 12 classes, we have 2 pregnant teachers (we do), 2 with severe asthma, one with a historic serious lung condition, one is diabetic, one has a husband v poorly recovering from a transplant.

That’s already over half of the teachers-if we managed to get a supply for each class (which we couldn’t, just before the schools closed), each supply (who was only able to do half a day or a day at a time) needs absolutely everything explaining to them as they are essentially isolated in a room with 30 kids and have Probably never been to our school before. Maybe in an office/care home-they’d walk over or call out and ask where something is or what happens next? There’s very little consistency or continuity of education if it’s day to day supplies and then the rest of the work-planning/marking/assemblies/rotas/interventions/explaining stuff to each new supply (which can take a while, especially if there are multiple supplies who have never been to the school before) etc falls to those teachers remaining. You would then have to do all the explaining again at lunchtime or the next day, with a new bunch of supply teachers.

Even if you could find multiple supplies-it’s difficult, but if you can’t find them-you need a body in front of that class. We have a handful of TAs left (most made redundant last year) but they are generally 1:1 and it would be taking away from a child who is likely to run if they aren’t there. It also isn’t fair to ask a TA to ‘teach’ on their salary.

are you for real?

All that was meant is that when there are supply teachers in, some kids play up. Did that ever happen when you were at school?

I really can't see it happening right now. My school Easter holidays finished on Tuesday.

I can't see how they'll open before the initial 12 weeks for at risk (not just the shielded group but the ones below this who are at a greater risk than normal) groups or before social distancing finishes.

That initial 12 weeks is just under 4 weeks ago so we'd have at least 8 to go. May half term is in about 6 weeks time.

I think it's likely to be September. But if we do managed to pass the peak and settle we may get 1-2 weeks before the summer holidays, but we are certainly working towards plans to be off the whole of the summer term at the moment as there's no way of knowing.

Cancel summer hols, get them back in for July and August.

That is highly unlikely to happen. I think Wales have already confirmed summer holidays will happen as normal.

Even teachers are allowed to have their holidays you know. You'd need to change the contracts of all school staff to organise this as they aren't paid holidays. Teachers are paid for x number of hours. Other teaching and other school staff are only paid for term time. They're already working through Easter and probably May holidays voluntarily in lots of places.

My apologies. I think people misunderstood my post or more likely I misread the previous one.
My post was meant to show total agreement that staff shortages in schools will be a problem. As a school leader it worries me hugely what with early years ratios and the unsettling effect on children of changes to routine and staffing.

Rocket - that was one report and it was badly written about in the media. What the uk press wrote about wasn't what the report actually said.

How did people misunderstand "Are you for real?"

@MKmummy123 You are aware that schools have to adhere to staff- student ratios. There needs to be a certain amount of teaching, admin and safeguarding stuff in school per student.

Generally as a response to this thread my school stated it could only have 35 students per class max and even then the would be reluctant to do it. Extra students in a class would cause disruption and behaviour issues. Schools are already struggling to retain staff. My department, a key department for a core subject is losing half of the teachers due to various reasons meaning we are already understaffed. The chance of getting supply will be slim and our schools can not afford it. There is already unrest with some teachers in my school that they have been put at unnecessary risk because there is no way to social distance in a classroom. What most people are forgetting is yes children are less effected but they spread the virus who come into contact with school staff who bring it home.

They only way I can see schools going back is if teachers and school staff self isolate from family like the nhs staff do in hotels

I don't think June is unlikely. Maybe half days for the children.

@CallmeAngelina I aimed my are you for real at the wrong poster. I was trying to agree with all those saying that schools need sufficient numbers of staff to operate. It should have been directed to @MKmummy123

I think part time/ some years after May half term too. If schools don’t have enough staff then they don’t open but I hope some are able to.

Our economy is already down by 10% which will translate to education budget cuts - we may Ivy be able to afford part time education anyway at this rate!

I think the schools will start to open mid/late June maybe-when the 12 weeks for vulnerable people is up-in a gradual phased way.

I wonder if the DfE will contract head teachers in May/June to see how many are able to open and safely staff the school without those vulnerable groups to give them some indication of what they’re dealing with.

Maybe not though. Huge numbers of states in the US have already been told that they will need to continue with virtual learning until the end of term and hope to reopen in September.