Schools reopening before May half term?

[Manchestertimes]

What's everyone's opinion on when the schools will reopen? I think they will reopen a few weeks after Easter.

Depends if they put economy before all else.

If the schools do reopen soon I won't be happy. What about children with asthma, recovering from cancer with vulnerable adults at home?

Unfortunately those groups will have to stay at home and isolate for as long as necessary. The rest are entitled to get on with their lives

Unfortunately those groups will have to stay at home and isolate for as long as necessary. The rest are entitled to get on with their lives

In that case, many many schools will not be able to open as so many of their staff are in those groups.

So be it.

SpokeTooSoon

Unfortunately those groups will have to stay at home and isolate for as long as necessary.

And it will cause more work.

I wonder why so many people seem to think september makes sense?
september to me sounds likd the worst idea ever - it would mean the next peak right in flu seasons (and there won’t be a vaccine widely available until then)
to me (not medical backgroubd, but epidemiology) the most sensible seems to be an on/off pattern in a 3-4 weeks rhythm starting asap.
particularly vulnerable children and adults would have to stay at home, but they are luckily a minority

myself2020

to me (not medical backgroubd, but epidemiology) the most sensible seems to be an on/off pattern in a 3-4 weeks rhythm starting asap.

How would this work whilst observing all of the social distancing rules etc.

If the infection/death rate for children was as high as it is for the elderly or those with underlying health conditions, would there be any debate at all about opening schools?
So, why is it a discussion, when doing so will lead to increased suffering and deaths in the wider population? Purely to stop those lazy teacher feckers having their (perceived) long holiday?

Before schools can open safely the govt will need to find thousands of people willing to take on the role of unqualified teachers to fill in for all of the vulnerable staff who will need to continue isolating. I imagine that will be very difficult given that education already has a shortage of teachers! & all of those people will need to be checked for criminal records etc too.

For the last 2 or 3 weeks of term in July, possibly, but more likely September.

Before schools can open safely the govt will need to find thousands of people willing to take on the role of unqualified teachers to fill in for all of the vulnerable staff who will need to continue isolating. I imagine that will be very difficult given that education already has a shortage of teachers! & all of those people will need to be checked for criminal records etc too.

This is a good point.

I am hoping for June, so that we can re-settle students for a few weeks, prepare next year's exam groups for what is to come and still have plenty of catch-up time with them. It could be a fairly realistic time if the curve indeed starts to flatten now as the next big wave would hit at the time of the summer holidays (and I don't expect free travel between countries to be a possibility for a long while).

Summer holidays should not and hopefully will not be tampered with.

1. Any shifting of the holidays would mess up contracted contact days - children have 190 contact days with teachers; teachers have an extra 5 INSET days on top fof that. If the summer holidays were to be shifted a few weeks either way, those 190 days would be very unlikely to get back to their normal pattern for years.

1. Work load and mental health - both for children and staff. Without a decent respite period you can expect a huge increase in ill mental health - both for students and teaching/ support staff. I notice the difference now in my WFH days; while they are still full-on and I work most of the day between 6am and 6pm (with email/ online response after that well into the night), I am far less stressed and have more energy, because the whole performance aspect and having to be aware of 10 things at once with 30 different people at a time is not there. Teachers work on extremely high adrenaline levels during term-time, which is why so many get ill as soon as the holidays hit.

1. The issue of pay. Yes, many people do a couple of hours unpaid overtime most weeks. But please don't forget that teachers are paid for 35 hours a week, 195 days a year. That's it. The average time working is around 55 hours per week as it is, so 20 hours overtime unpaid. Now we're being asked to come in over the holidays - my academy have (thankfully) asked for volunteers to cover the Easter holidays and bank holidays and have offered renumeration at our daily rate, which is fair. I understand that not every school is as fair as that. Yes, in many other sectors people work more than they are being paid for - but entire days/ weeks? I don't think so.

1. Recruitment. There are already issues with some schools breaking contracts with long-term supply staff by essentially laying them off a few weeks early, but can you imagine the turmoil it would cause for all those teachers changing schools/ starting work at a new school if work officially ends in July and new work doesn't resume until September, if schools were to suddenly find themselves without staff during late July/ August?

1. It's not just teachers. So many people forget that. If you open schools over summer, you will also have to find money for cleaners, kitchen staff, caretakers, IT personnell, office staff, admin/ HR staff, school nurses, technicians etc. - all of those are vital to teaching and are NOT contracted to work during those weeks - no school can run without them and no school can afford to pay those staff as well, cover their insurance for longer and pay extra NI/ pension contributions.

Sorry it's not as easy as "get teachers in, because they will still have a job after this".

@FrippEnos the only other sensible alternative is to wait for a vaccine/treatment after flu season. that would be in a year if we are lucky, so not possible.
So you can only manage the waves, not prevent cases

btw, that has nothing to do with teachers and holidays.
it has everything to do with the economy, safety at home, and people not being able to do full isolation for extended periods of time. you need to manage that, or people will mix and you get uncontrollable (and therefore unmanageable) peaks.
Its impossible to prevent all deaths - its about minimising them (and deaths due to starvation, domestic violence and accidents at home count as well)

I'm leaning towards June. I think it is unlikely before at least mid-May. Most schools closed before the official closure because of a lack of staff due to self-isolating and being vulnerable. We'll have the same problem when schools reopen if it is too soon.

The government want schools open because they believe it will help the economy. However they haven't explained how social distancing will work in practice once they reopen schools.

However they haven't explained how social distancing will work in practice once they reopen schools.

Probably because they have no idea.

myself2020
Again

How will this be managed in schools?

classes of up to 40 kids, sitting right next to each other, In a school of say 2000 pupils maybe 1/3 to a 1/2 are siblings that is over 1000 families mixing together with little or no social distancing.

Its impossible to prevent all deaths - its about minimising them

Increasing social contact will not prevent that.

(and deaths due to starvation, domestic violence and accidents at home count as well)

Why are you putting schools at the forefront of this? This is not what schools are there to do.

I know from our FB parents groups for my DC's schools that there are a lot of the parents saying, even if schools do reopen, they aren't sending their DC back until there is either an effective treatment or a vaccine. I'm reluctant to send mine back as DH is in an at risk group and I have two children who are autistic which is apparently classed as a learning disability so also puts them in an at risk group. If/when schools do reopen I think attendance will be very low.

We currently have fewer than 15 children in our school, spread out over 2 classrooms. It is impossible to enforce social distancing even with those few in. These are lovely teenagers, but even so the girls especially are constantly sitting too close, huddle together and generally forget - in classrooms as well as during social time. Impossible in classrooms, which already cannot hold the number of pupils in each class (34 in a classroom built for 32 is not unusual) during normal times and corridors which are far less than two metres wide. And can you imagine the lunch time queues? 1200 pupils queueing up 2m apart from each other, obtaining their food and eating it in less than 45min? My shopping now takes double the time it normally does due to the queues and there are usually around 20 people doing this at the same time.

I think if things improve there will be lots of pressure for schools to open. After Easter would be too soon imo and I would think most peoples. After May half term though is a real possibility even if it's limited to certain year groups Yr6, 10 &12 for example to help those pupils to adjust and not miss out on too much key learning. This assumes we will be post pinch point by then.

no childcare - people can’t work. plus if you let anybody loose, it needs to be the population group the least likely to die, so kids. Anybody vulnerable will have to wait it out (for a loooong time), and school will not be the same as it used to be.
the only ither viable option - widespread testing - has been thoroughly screwed up by the government and is not viable anymore in a realistic time frame

myself2020

Yes all the reasons for but

How will this be managed in schools?

Also many teachers are in the vulnerable group and will need either staff brought in asap for schools to reopen or staff to replace them as they get ill.

Just FYI, if schools re open and they will have to impose social distancing. the largest classrooms that we have, (dt work shops) will only safely house approximately 10 pupils, a standard classroom maybe three. + teacher.

i know. if its done sensibly, it won’t be school as we know it. it won’t be whole classes, and not terms as we know it. and it will be core content, not education as we know it.

it will be core content, not education as we know it

And who, pray, will teach that? There is a massive shortage of Science and Maths teachers as it is. They are specialist subjects for a reason and at secondary level and beyond you cannot expect others to just pick it up and roll with it - or will only some staff be required to work?
I mean, that's optimum conditions, given that I have also been in a few primary schools happy to push especially Science content onto outside educators as they can't deal with the knowledge required...

@Alkaloise I have also been in a few primary schools happy to push especially Science content onto outside educators as they can't deal with the knowledge required...

Wow really? That's disgraceful!