AIBU to despair about the amount of posters who already think the rules don’t apply to them?

[Dennisreynoldsduster]

How can anyone look At what is happening around the world and still think it’s okay to go to their holiday rental/get their nails done etc?
I don’t know whether some posters are deliberately obtuse or genuinely don’t understand (not sure how much clearer Boris could have made it tbh) but I’m actually more scared now than I have been previously due to some of the posts on here tonight

We’ve got no hope have we?

Oh. Wrong old people reference, sorry. But I'm sure you get my point anyway.

@Eckhart -I will spell out the answer then. No it was not clear last night, the PM was delivering a speech telling people to stay at home. To sit there bogged down in detail would have detracted from the message. It would have been unrealistic for him to cover every possibility. The main questions have been fleshed out on the government website and various news stories this morning.

I am sorry your particular question wasn’t addressed by the PM last night, it has been made clear this morning, a mere 14 hours later, together with many other questions where it would have been impractical to address them individually last night.

I’m not sure what you actually wanted from the PM last night!

My elderly neighbours have been offered help by me and DH and at least 4 other neighbours I know of. They have told us all they are fine but all insist on popping to the shops several times a day and chatting in close proximity in each others front gardens. We have tried to explain to them, they just don’t care so no, not all elderly people need to be out. Speaking to friends it seems to be a bit of a pattern with grandparents, parents neighbours etc.

In answer to your dog question @Eckhart why can’t you give your dog one long walk a day and then take it just outside your home for the toilet a few more times. I feel like you are being purposefully difficult in trying to find loopholes in simple instructions.

Life, nobody's expecting Mumsnet to 'stand in' for the PM to answer questions.

This is a chatboard and this is where people are asking - not directing questions to the PM. There actually is a distinction.

Wow. I'm actually laughing for the first time today...

@Lifeisgenerallyfun, yes, as I said, you're making my point for me. I don't have an answer to my question, actually, as, in your words, 'it was not clear last night'. The blood donation thing wasn't my question but it was an excellent way to demonstrate my point.

I'll ask the first police officer I see, and hope that I don't get the answer 'Walk your dog, maintaining social distancing, according strictly to its toileting needs and no more, AND WE'LL ALL DIE YOU FUCKING MORON.', which has been the answer I've received from the MN drama team.

It's tragic, isn't it? So many show so little empathy for those who process these new instructions more slowly and need to ask 'moronic' questions to make sense of it all.

@MediocreOmens I'm not being difficult. My question has always been '3 quick toileting opportunities per day', ie 5 - 10 minute walks. I don't want to take her for long walks - I'm staying in as much as I can. The dog can get as stir crazy as the rest of us. But in answer, I've been told 'We're allowed to go out once a day, you idiot. You will kill everybody and break the NHS, do you really think your precious little Fido is worth it??'

Thanks for suggesting a sensible answer. I'll check with the police when I see them too.

DD has an orthodontist appointment next week. We were dithering as to whether this came under "medical need" or "non essential". Fortunately the orthodontist has now cancelled the appointment, thus rendering it unnecessary for us to have to make the decision.

I think regular checkups are a grey area. They are not essential to maintain life now (so they fail the life/death scenario someone suggested upthread) but not having a check up may cause more problems down the line.
Similarly, when I go to the supermarket (which I'll do as infrequently as I can) I will not be thinking that I have to only buy the minimum food that is essential to sustain my family. I may, for example, put in a packet of biscuits - because if I'm there anyway, I might as well. I wouldn't make a separate trip for biscuits.

@Lifeisgenerallyfun wasn’t making your point. They were making the good point that it wasn’t possible for BoJo to go into immense detail about how people can make sure their dog can shit outside. He was making 4 clear and simple points (apparently not clear and simple enough for some) and the government have followed up as much as possible today in this unprecedented situation.

I do not agree with the governments response as a whole up to now but I am getting fed up of people not being able to wait 10 hours or so for more detailed information when a new measure is announced, in a fast paced ever changing situation. I mean between us all we could come up with a list of very specific person situations that may need clarifying and submit them to the government? Or we could just use some common sense.

We are dong our bit to stick to the rules in my household. I can mostly work from home, but will need to go to the office on Thursday to collect some essentials to keep me going.

I brought up blood donation. I posted a thread about it last night, and I wasn’t asking if it was alright, but whether walking nearly 4 miles home afterwards would be a bad idea. My point in mentioning it earlier was that I was so paranoid about being jumped on because of the general attitude on here that I actually posted the official Blood Donation Service message to preempt all the howls of “how dare you go outside you selfish moron!”

Can most dogs manage just one chance to pee or crap per day? I'd see not ending up with dog pee all over your floor is an essential reason to go out.

DD has an orthodontist appointment next week. We were dithering as to whether this came under "medical need" or "non essential". Fortunately the orthodontist has now cancelled the appointment, thus rendering it unnecessary for us to have to make the decision

Mine just cancelled...they said i can have an appointment in three weeks or keep my May appointment

I said well its going to be longer than 3 weeks, she agreed but said that a lot of people don’t think that

mediocre My point was that the guidance wasn't clear, so yes, Life did make the same point. You're moving the goalposts really quite far, to now start saying 'Yes, it wasn't clear, but what's wrong with people that they can't just wait?'

Whole different argument.

And you yourself are also making my point. It wasn't clear last night. We need more clarification as soon as possible.

I've just come back from essential shopping, after 13 days self-isolating because of a "flu-type illness".

At the supermarket, I saw 2 groups of teens, one group of 4, one group of 5. They looked too close in age to be siblings, and one pair definitely weren't (their snogging went way beyond a fraternal kiss!).

Wtf are their parents thinking of, letting them wander round town with their mates when they're not supposed to be out, or socialising, at all? And if their parents don't know they're out, why don't they know where their kids are?

I really despair at the selfishness of people, and their total lack of any sense of responsibility.

@Eckhart - This is really frustrating. They were clear but as with anything people, like you will have questions because that is life so the government provided follow up advice to give more details but obviously not quick enough to stop the myriad of “how does that apply to my specific situation”. I am not engaging anymore you are hell bent on just being bloody difficult

Wtf are their parents thinking of, letting them wander round town with their mates when they're not supposed to be out, or socialising, at all? And if their parents don't know they're out, why don't they know where their kids are?

Because a lot of them will be at work, no doubt saving the lives of people who have caught this.

I'm agreeing with you, Mediocre!

@Eckhart, In no way am I making your point. If you look on the government website it is now very clear. This is the usual way legislation in made and announced in the UK, every single detail of the Finance Act is not set out in the Budget speech.

You are to remain in your home at all times except for 4 specific reasons.
1 to shop for basic necessities as infrequently as possible

1. One piece of exercise per day where you should be outside your home for as little time as possible and maintain the two meter rule
2. Due to medical necessity or to help a vulnerable person (it has been confirmed this morning blood donation fulfils these requirements)
3. To travel to work where it is impossible (meaning physically impossible, not just the preference of your boss) to work from home - a list of businesses which MUST close has been set out, all other businesses may continue to operate (this is mainly manufacturing and construction).

Police can enforce non-compliance.

Re your dog, you have two choices, take the dog for one decent walk and get puppy pads or literally go out the front of your property to get him to do his business quickly and maintain social distancing (although this will obviously not be complying with law but hopefully should achieve its aims).

So you're saying that I should just break the law a little bit? Whilst arguing that we should all be sticking to the law because it's totally clear?

You are having a bad day at arguing today.

Anyway I'll ask the police when I see them. They'll know better than you.

Eckhart you don’t need to break the law. One walk with your dog. Other times it needs a pee, put it on its lead, you stand inside, it goes out and pees. If it does 💩 you may need to reach and get it, but not too far. Or, you know, stand just outside, following the spirit of the law if not the letter. Jesus. It’s not hard.

Daniel Sandford, Home Affairs Correspondent for BBC News, just clarified on BBC News at One that driving to an isolated spot to exercise was fine. The example question mentioned a 30 minute drive. It makes sense if you live in a densely populated area.

D'you mean, like, put the dog just outside the door and unscrew the bowel and bladder bolts, empty the two chambers, re-affix the bolts, and take the dog back in?

It doesn't work like that, any more than I could take you to a toilet now and instruct you to shit. Dogs need to walk for a few minutes. Not long. They won't mess on or near their territory. My dog will vomit rather than mess in the house. She will need short walks. Anything else will be animal neglect. I'm sure the government doesn't support that.

Maybe you're just meant to stick the dog's arse out the door and squeeze? Or possibly the window if you're in a flat.

(Come on, everyone, I am very much in favor of the lockdown but let's be realistic.)

What a tedious and selfish person Eckhart must be...

Flats aren’t suitable for dogs. Our dog likes to sit by the window surveying things & go into the garden to pee/poo/investigate something/chase a squirrel/ sunbathe 20-30 times a day. Being cooped up in a flat would be unbearable.