Looking after your own children IS work

[Bumpitybumper]

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

My DD has a friend whose bedroom is actually in the basement “nanny flat” of one of those typical 6-sorry London terrace houses. His brother’s bedroom is down there too. I’m not even sure if the mother works or not tbh, as I’ve barely seen her. Apparently the house upstairs is for “entertaining,”

Also DS had a friend who also used to live in the nanny flat with the nanny, When he used to go round there, he used to find it odd. He used to say, “there’s this big empty house above, but they only live in the basement.” To be honest, I thought the nanny wax the mum because she was the one who came to every parents evening, show, bought the clothes, did medical appointments etc. I did yoga with her and that’s when so going out she was the nanny! But the thing is, even this actual mum (who is abroad most of the time from what I can gather), probably thinks she “does it all” because she might make it to the odd school event or read them the odd story when she’s home. Something like that.

This is what I mean when I say it’s all relative.

@LolaSmiles
Schools are there to educate, not provide childcare. Two different things
Of course, but the end effect is the same that somebody else is physically looking after your child when they are at school/nursery etc. That means that a SAHP in those hours will not physically be looking after their own children.

This is what I mean when I say it’s all relative.

I’m not quite sure how citing really bizarre set ups helps the conversation. Plenty of rich, privileged people don’t work and barely see their children either.

@ArmageddonOutOfHere
I have done both, and I can tell you the SAHM role was WAY better and easier
For you it may have been. Plenty of posters that have also done both disagree with you.

Your tone towards SAHPs is disgusting. Imagine if a SAHP had taken such joy in WOHPs lives getting more difficult and accompanied it with a smiling winking emoji. In these times more than any other we shouldn't be revelling in others misfortune or difficulties.

Also, there are many families which have a SAHM and the children are full boarding.

There are families where the DH doesn’t appear to work either - he has investment portfolios or whatever. But they still have a nanny in and definitely cleaners.

I know a lot of SAHMs who have live-in housekeepers or au-pairs. Still they always seem to be busy and nobody is watching daytime TV, put it that way. It’s just different expectations. They may have specialist tutors coming and going all the time, this kind of thing. Personally, I would find it very claustrophobic and awkward to have some other woman around all the time, but clearly others think it’s essential. My neighbour is quite honest that she has someone come in to supervise homework on school day evenings as the kids play up if she tries to intervene. She also had a live-in housekeeper.

So this kind of SAHM lifestyle is obviously a world away from a woman who actually can’t afford to go to work because she can’t afford the childcare.

There so many generalisations on these threads and people just project their own “normal” into everything, which is why the threads go on and on.

Your tone towards SAHPs is disgusting. Imagine if a SAHP had taken such joy in WOHPs lives getting more difficult and accompanied it with a smiling winking emoji.

@Bumpitybumper Yes, imagine that. All the following from page 37:

@Greenmarmalade: Bet there’s a different perspective on this after a few months of lockdown and no school

Liverbird77 @Greenmarmalade just what I was thinking. Perhaps all those who think it is so easy could offer us sahm mums some advice?

littlejalapeno @Greenmarmalade was thinking the same! 👏👏👏

@Bumpitybumper I imagine those posters who proclaimed that they did everything a SAHM of non-school age children did AND WOH FT won't find this a struggle at all....

@ScreamedAtTheMichelangelo
None of these comment are comparable to what @ArmageddonOutOfHere wrote. There is a difference between acknowledging that changing times may bring about different perspectives and actively enjoying other people's downfall and suggesting that parents will now be forced to parent properly etc.

Looking after your own children is work in the same way as preparing your own food is work. Doesn’t mean you should be paid for it.

@Bumpitybumper Yes, those comments are definitely just neutral acknowledgement of the global pandemic and not at all smug, delighted anticipation of the closure of schools and WOHPs realising that SAHPs do, in fact, have it harder than anyone else. Clapping hands are definitely not a sign of enjoyment. Okee dokee.

@zsazsajuju
Looking after your own children is work in the same way as preparing your own food is work. Doesn’t mean you should be paid for it
Literally nobody mentioned being paid for it.

I disagree with it being akin to making your own food though as this would only directly benefit yourself. Looking after children properly directly benefits the children themselves and the family unit as a whole as the alternative option is to outsource the care which would usually cost money.

Also, there are many families which have a SAHM and the children are full boarding.

There are families where the DH doesn’t appear to work either - he has investment portfolios or whatever. But they still have a nanny in and definitely cleaners.

----

You don't need to feel as though you're our lifeline into the lifestyles of the rich and famous, just by the way.

Look, the fact is, some parents will be counting down the days til the schools reopen and skipping out the door to their workplaces as soon as possible. Other parents will see this as a unique opportunity to be at home and embrace it. Some parents will hardly notice the difference while others will struggle for all kinds of reasons. This is all stating the obvious and it’s not a competition

The reason I’m giving you extreme examples of people who hardly see their kids is because I have sometimes looked at them and wondered what they do all day, just as I’m sure a lot of people on here would wonder what I do all day (because my kids are all school age). But the answer is - it’s nobody else’s business and you have no idea!

So what if women SAH and have staff. They’re still allowed to feel tired, if they say they are. I would never tell them to shut up, just because this is something I wouldn’t do personally and have no experience of.

Also people who have staff are often far from rich or famous. In some cultures, it’s quite normal. As I say, just different perspectives.

@ScreamedAtTheMichelangelo
The clapping was quite clearly a sign of agreement with what a previous poster had written.

Why do you insist on repeating how SAHPs think they've got it harder than everyone else? Literally nobody has suggested this. If you're going to make a point at least try and counter the actual points and arguments raised. Exaggerating just to undermine and ridicule a non-existant argument is really tiresome.

Saying looking after your children is work is not the same as saying that it's the hardest work ever known to exist. I have worked in a variety of paid jobs encompassing work of differing degrees of difficulty. Nobody at any point disputed that I was doing work in any of these roles irrespective of how taxing the activities actually were. So something being easy or difficult clearly isn't a qualifier as to whether society at large acknowledges an activity to be work or not. Why then do parents have to prove that looking after children is the hardest thing in the world for what they do to be acknowledged as work?

The reason I’m giving you extreme examples of people who hardly see their kids is because I have sometimes looked at them and wondered what they do all day, just as I’m sure a lot of people on here would wonder what I do all day (because my kids are all school age). But the answer is - it’s nobody else’s business and you have no idea!

I think the WOHPs would say they don't care what you or anyone else is up to, they're just doing their own thing and not expecting affirmation for it.

Oh, so all “the WOHPs” would say that, would they?

Do “the WOHPs” all share a hive mindset?

What a load of nonsense.

And people on here clearly do have a view or they wouldn’t bother to comment at all.

But nobody on here speaks for “the WOHPs” because there are as many types of WOHPs as there are types of human being. Same with SAHMs. All types, doing all sorts of things, in just about every situation or job you can imagine.

itsallthedramaMickiloveit bitter much?

It really isn't a competition, if there is wohps and sahms who judge they really need to get a life. Who bloody cares?!

LaurieMarlow: "I’m not quite sure how citing really bizarre set ups helps the conversation. Plenty of rich, privileged people don’t work and barely see their children either."

Indeed. I am not a parent, so have no skin in the game. The discussion has been interesting to me, with some excellent, illuminating posts from both "sides". However, I am always struck in these types of threads by the extent to which some people on MN have very little idea how most people live. I think I can confidently state that the vast majority of SAHMs do not have cleaners or other staff. Likewise, nor do most SAHMs have independent sources of wealth or inherited wealth that generates taxable income. In fact, those things are outside the realm of most people's reality, regardless of their status as SAHMs or WOHMs.

Likewise, boarding schools and investment portfolios. Not real life for many, many people.

@Bumpitybumper

Semantics. I doubt the “AND” ever meant that WOHPs were saying they were literally doing both simultaneously. It means that those responsibilities listed by SAHPs – helping kids with homework, playing with them, laundry, cooking, and other household tasks – are also done by the working parents before or after their jobs, crammed into fewer hours.

The posts up thread suggesting that working parents thought staying home was easy and would now suffer in the current crisis with kids at home ignored the fact that those parents were never forced to do both at the same time before. With the situation as it currently is, of course, many parents with FT jobs now really WILL be forced to do both simultaneously.

Not the same as being either a stay-at-home parent with a working spouse or a working parent with children in daycare or school.

@OutOntheTilez
Semantics. I doubt the “AND” ever meant that WOHPs were saying they were literally doing both simultaneously
It's not semantics though is it when the question at the heart of the thread is whether looking after your own children constitutes work? I agree that the posters who suggested they were doing both clearly didn't mean that they were physically looking after their children whilst they were in the office, but then it becomes more puzzling why they would make such a statement.

Surely they can see that the amount of time they spend physically looking after their child either side of nursery/childminder is different and that duration of an activity can make it more difficult to sustain. If as a SAHP I dropped into an office in the evening for a few hours and attended one meeting, wrote one email and answered a single telephone call and then proclaimed I was doing all a FT WOHP was doing AND staying at home with my kids all day then I can't imagine this would go down brilliantly with all the FT workers. Technically I could tick a list of activities to make it look like I was compressing their working day into a shorter amount of time but we all know the reality would be very different.

Housework is different How you arrange your domestic chores is largely irrelevant as each household will likely have their own arrangements and ways of doing things. Some households with SAHPs may well try to get housework during the day, some (like mine) find it more efficient and effective to do a power hour at the end of the day when the kids are asleep. SAHPs may have more opportunity to get chores done around the house during the day, but if you're dealing with toddlers and young children then having them at home will also generate a whole heap of additional household tasks too. There are so many variables regarding housework (e.g. size of house, your own standards, whether you use a cleaner etc) that I don't think it's useful to put it at the centre of a discussion specifically about looking after your children.

“Likewise, boarding schools and investment portfolios. Not real life for many, many people.”

Of course boarding school is not the norm on a national scale, but the reason I raised this is because in the area I live in, the fact is it’s fairly common because London schools are so competitive. Boarding school is not something we would have considered in a million years for our DC, but this is not the point. It happens and many of these families have a SAHM. I see this all the time. So just as people in here could cast aspersions about “the lazy SAHMs who have school aged DC,” I could just as easily wonder what mums do all day when their DC are away at school. But I don’t, because I have the sense to realise I have no idea how other people organise their time and frankly, it’s none of my business. This is obvious.

Anyway, take care everyone over the next few months. I wish you all the best, whatever your circumstances and whatever you’re doing..,,