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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Looking after your own children IS work

999 replies

Bumpitybumper · 12/03/2020 09:20

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

OP posts:
thepersians · 19/03/2020 17:22

Also, having 4 children is ostensibly more “work” than having one, but in terms of being a SAHM, day after day after day, having one child can be harder work in some respects because you are often the only “other” and you can’t leave the kids to occupy each other.
I have 3 DC and I found that they generally get into their own “mode” after a few weeks of being home together and it takes the pressure off me having to entertain them all the time or be constantly doing / ferrying them to various “play dates” or other activities.
I notice SAHMs with one child constantly want my kids to go over there, which is understandable, but when you have multiple kids you don’t need to be constantly organising stuff so much and can just take the day as it comes, quite often.
Also, my DB only had one child but she’s anorexic and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
All I’m saying it, it’s useless to presume or generalise about anything until you’ve walked in that person’s shoes.

Marieo · 19/03/2020 17:27

But most people don't go back to work the day after their baby is born, they understand the monotony and how hard it can be to get out of the house; but you can if you want. If you are that unhappy maybe go back to work and get some balance back?

MarginalGain · 19/03/2020 18:13

Where did I ask for thanks, admiration or appreciation?

Maybe you're late to the thread, but that's the point of this thread. That SAHMs are under-appreciated by society in general.

lovepickledlimes · 19/03/2020 18:16

@MarginalGain I think most SAHM would appreciate to just not be looked down on by people rather then being thanked and admired

OrangeTwirl · 19/03/2020 18:32

We all have a choice.... either we can be an unpaid parent and bring up the children we chose to have OR we go out to work and leave our children in the care of others.

We can’t have it all ways 🤷🏻‍♀️ Parents should not be paid to bring up their own children, if that’s what you are alluding to?

lovepickledlimes · 19/03/2020 19:02

@OrangeTwirl I don't think anyone is suggesting that. It's just that iy should get some recognition that it's not just sitting at home doing nothing but watch tv all day etc

Bumpitybumper · 19/03/2020 19:13

@MarginalGain
Maybe you're late to the thread, but that's the point of this thread. That SAHMs are under-appreciated by society in general
I don't think any of the SAHMs that have posted on this thread have been looking for thanks or admiration.

Appreciation is a different matter. I do want the activity of looking after children to be appreciated. I think it's beneficial for both the caregiver and the child. I want it to be acknowledged that it is work because it requires large amounts of time, effort and energy if done properly. The majority of childcare is still undertaken by women irrespective of whether they WOH or SAH. This isn't really a WOHP Vs SAHP issue although predictably perhaps the thread has veered off on that direction. If looking after children isn't hard, difficult or work of any description then what's the problem when men don't do their share?

In these times more than any other, where many households will have two parents trying to WFH and have small children around the acceptance that looking after children is work in itself is crucial.

OP posts:
thepersians · 19/03/2020 19:26

I really don’t think anyone is looking for any special praise for looking after their own children. I don’t know why certain people feel the need to try and twist things in that way. Literally nobody had said that.

I think the point is, that across the world and historically, the vast majority of care work has fallen to women. More than this, humans have been brainwashed to a greater or lesser extent to believe that this is “just what women do.”’ This has obviously been very convenient for men and for capitalism.

It’s implicit today in the very structure of our society where we have cleaners, gardeners etc often being paid more than nursery staff. Childcare work is seen as something “anyone can do,” when the fact is, not everyone can do it. The only reason care workers are low paid is because, traditionally, these roles were thought unsuitable for men. It’s no coincidence.

When you think about it, it’s bizarre. We are entrusting these minimum wage care staff with the most precious people in our lives. This is a huge responsibility for them. It only takes a second for a toddler to choke, or bang their head, as we all know. Yet we’re giving millions to people who do all kinds of abstract jobs, many of which, society could arguably do without.

I think this is the point the OP is trying to make and it affects all women, whatever you do. To deny the importance of care work to society and in underpinning the economy, is to make the impact of this work invisible - and thereby the input of women more invisible too. This will not bring about a society in which people can work towards a better life /work balance. It will only result in SSHMs being reduced to pointless, and WOHMs being told they have it all, when really they are just doing it all.

thepersians · 19/03/2020 19:34

And I didn’t say I’m unhappy as a SAHM at all. Quite the opposite, in fact. Just that it’s not that hard to imagine women who might be struggling, for all kinds of reasons.

People seem to want to lump all SAHMs together as if they have a single experience. They do the same with WOHMs too, as if there aren’t a billion and one types of job. It’s like asking how long is a piece of string,

Bumpitybumper · 19/03/2020 19:51

@thepersians
Exactly, it is damaging for women as a class to downplay the importance and value of caring roles and activities. Women are disproportionately responsible for looking after their own children irrespective of whether they WOH or not.

OP posts:
Dontevenstart · 19/03/2020 20:43

Oh god. This is utter shit.
What are you trying to achieve by posting this?!

Marieo · 19/03/2020 20:50

@thepersians but you were comparing the feeling to the same as being on lockdown during a global pandemic haha. Hate to see what you class as not enjoying...

OutOntheTilez · 19/03/2020 23:28

A lot of people who believe looking after children at home is not 'work' are going to be surprised to find the output and efficiency of their 'real work' seriously impacted, as they struggle to do both at home at the same time, over the next few months.

How is this even comparable?

With the current crisis, WOHPs are taking care of their non-school-age children while doing at home the jobs that put food on their tables and keep the mortgages paid. They weren’t trying to do both simultaneously when the daycares were open.

Meanwhile, for the SAHPs, it’s business as usual. They’re cracking on like they always have. The kids and the house. That’s it. And somebody else is earning the money to pay the bills.

Apples and oranges.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 20/03/2020 07:02

A lot of people who believe looking after children at home is not 'work' are going to be surprised to find the output and efficiency of their 'real work' seriously impacted, as they struggle to do both at home at the same time, over the next few months

Not even comparable.

SAHP are still free all day to do as they please whilst someone else picks up the financial burden whilst the working parent will have to work and parent and likely worrying about their financial responsibilities.

Rosebel · 20/03/2020 07:03

But it looking after children isn't work then surely there's no problem.

MarginalGain · 20/03/2020 07:08

More than this, humans have been brainwashed to a greater or lesser extent to believe that this is “just what women do.”’ This has obviously been very convenient for men and for capitalism.

Have women also been brainwashed? I don't see why, if women wanted not to be the default carer of their children, they wouldn't be. Here are the two things they could do to avoid it:

-Have children only with men who want to do at least half the childcare
-Actively encourage these men to take paternity leave while they go back to work

Are women doing this? I don't think they are, because most of them want to be at home with their children (not all - I don't need people to tell me that this doesn't hold true for everyone).

As for childcare being low-paid, we have a major crisis of low-paid work in Europe - there's an enormous supply of labour available. If you want to be well-paid, develop a scarce skill. You and I know that people who are properly good with children are fairly scarce, but firstly this is subjective and secondly it's hard for employers to identify. Nannies in the SW in particular are well-paid and never unemployed, they are rotated around through word of mouth and subject to being poached all the time.

ScreamedAtTheMichelangelo · 20/03/2020 07:17

Christ. Has anyone anywhere on this entire thread said that childcare involves no activity at all? Of course it's going to be a problem to do two activities (childcare and a full time job) at the same time. That doesn't mean that childcare is a job, and that WOHPs are now in the exact same position as SAHPs. I feel like I'm banging my head off a wall.

Bumpitybumper · 20/03/2020 07:20

@OutOntheTilez
With the current crisis, WOHPs are taking care of their non-school-age children while doing at home the jobs that put food on their tables and keep the mortgages paid. They weren’t trying to do both simultaneously when the daycares were open
But the point is that some WOHPs on this thread have previously stated that they did everything that a SAHP did AND worked FT out of the home As you point out, now that a time has come where some WOHPs will be forced to attempt to work on this paid job and look after their own children then of course they may find it very difficult and potentially impossible.

The only people disputing the fact that you can't effectively look after children whilst also focussing on your paid job (except in very rare cases) were WOHPs that have posted previously on this thread.

OP posts:
Bumpitybumper · 20/03/2020 07:23

@ScreamedAtTheMichelangelo
That doesn't mean that childcare is a job, and that WOHPs are now in the exact same position as SAHPs

  1. This thread isn't about whether looking after your own children is the same as having a "job". Work exists outside the confines of a paid job and conflating the two is misleading.
  2. Some WOHPs that can't WFH or get to their place of work will actually now be in a very similar situation to SAHPs.
OP posts:
Rosebel · 20/03/2020 07:31

So looking after children is work then because you can't have it both ways. Either looking after children isn't work so no.problem with them being at home or it is work so there could easily be a problem.
There have been a lot of threads with people moaning because the schools are shut but at the same time say looking after children isn't work. Think some parents are going to be in for a surprise

MarginalGain · 20/03/2020 07:54

But the point is that some WOHPs on this thread have previously stated that they did everything that a SAHP did AND worked FT out of the home

That's entirely untrue, apart from older school-aged children, many of whom will just be left to their own devices if their parents continue to work through this period of confinement.

lovepickledlimes · 20/03/2020 07:54

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss I can assure you most SAHM I know are very busy looking after the house and children during the day not justing doing as they please.

Marieo · 20/03/2020 07:55

Er no, people have said that if you work you also have to do housework, and the admin that allegedly takes up hours every day.

lovepickledlimes · 20/03/2020 08:05

@Marieo but looking after the house all on your own, doing all the admin on your own and doing 90% of the child care can take all day depending on how you do it and it is hard work

Quicklittlenamechange · 20/03/2020 08:08

Oh FGS WOHP are saying they do all the things SAHP describe as their job in terms of cooking, cleaning, washing, school bags 🙄, lunches, life admin,bathing, teeth brushing, no one has stated they look after their DC while they are at work, they were responding to SAHP of school age DC who describe the above as their "job" as in yep WOHP do all those things as well.

Can I ask why SAHP do it if its so hard, so exhausting and awful?
Every summer the threads start -"6 weeks of hell with my DC", WOHP call it annual leave and cant wait to see their DC and be "on holiday"
Boot those men up the backside and get them doing their share, they wont as long as you call it your "job"