Looking after your own children IS work

[Bumpitybumper]

Oxford Dictionary definition of "work":
activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result

AIBU to suggest that the people that suggest that looking after one's own children isn't work are wrong and in some cases are actively trying to devalue and undermine the people (usually women) that do the majority of childcare?

Would be really interested to understand how anyone can read this definition and argue that looking after children isn't work.

Of course it’s work. IF you were to hire someone (i.e. nanny) to help you look after your children. The nanny gets paid.

No work is where you provide someone with your labour and they pay you in exchange. Having children and looking after them is a lifestyle choice. It’s not a job.

@Fieldofgreycorn - No work is where you provide someone with your labour and they pay you in exchange. Having children and looking after them is a lifestyle choice. It’s not a job.

If this is the case then why do stay at home wives get half when they divorce?? If it’s not considered work then why should they get half of the husbands hard earn money??

Understand that he has to provide for his children.....but if we’re going by what you said above. Then the wives shouldn’t have the right to 50% of the husbands assets?? Cause the stay at home wives didn’t go out and work & earned the money to buy the house, car, pay the mortgage....etc?

It’s because I’m the court of law building a family & stable home is considered worthy of payment when getting divorced.....but not when you’re not getting divorced? Not really logical?

As I said in previous statement. Just because you DON’T charge your partner. Doesn’t mean it’s not work. As for having kids being a lifestyle choice.....I agree. It’s BOTH parents decision to make that lifestyle choice. So then WHY does the mum get lumped with the responsibility & not even get recognition for it.

Wow. Women really don’t support each other on this site. No wonder men are still in charge even though we’re just as intelligent & as capable as them.

I’m with generation X. They might not be as tough as us BUT they realise that if they support each other as women. They will get some where without having to be so tough. Cause they’re in it together!

We can learn something from them. Again. Just my thoughts. Not trying to be negative.

People seem to confuse work with paid employment. Just because you don't get paid for a job or activity or service does not mean it isn't work. Volunteering isn't paid but is definitely time and effort put in which I would consider work. Caring is work whether for old or young or disability and if you as a family member doesn't /can't do it then you have to pay someone to do the same thing.
We are landscaping and are getting a landscape plan drawn up however we can't afford to pay someone to do the actual work so we are doing it ourselves. Does this mean that if a landscaper came and did it it would be considered work but because we are doing it ourselves it isn't work even though it will be the same effort and considerablely more time due to our skill and knowledge level?
I don't think it's good to compare your own situation with other people because everyone's situation is different.
Also judging others by saying staying home is easier or having a full time job is easier isn't accurate as we don't know the full story of their lives. Some people love being sahp and find it easy, others have children who require extensive support and is a lot of work. Similarly some people have demanding jobs others easy and some love their work (I've read many comments on mumsnet where they love their career and wouldn't give it up even if they didn't need to have one) and enjoy it more than staying home. Each to their own.
My husband is working outside right now mowing, whipper snippering and chopping wood. I don't intend on paying him, but by the sight of him walking past is showing he is tired out and has definitely worked hard.
I think all us mums work hard! And possibly some dads too 😂!

Wow. The OP’s post and some of the responses on this thread reek of white privilege.

I’d encourage all the relatively wealthy white women on here who are complaining about the horrors of looking after their own children, to spare a thought for the millions of women of colour who dream of having the time and money to look after their own kids rather than someone else’s.

Far out, I thought feminism had come further than this.

Further to my last post: we women ‘supporting each other’ - which has been mentioned a few times on this thread - means thinking about poor women, Black women, and indigenous women like those here in Australia who have historically had to fight to KEEP their children, so they can LOVE and RAISE them. And what about the millions of women from the Global South who literally have to leave their kids with relatives and move overseas to undertake shitty, underpaid domestic work for the wealthy?

This is about capitalism.

What do we want here guys? Do we want parenting to be acknowledged as ‘work’ because we think that will make capitalism finally respect us?

Or should we be aiming for a feminism that resists capitalism’s efforts to separate us - particularly those of us who are poor, and not white - from our families to put us to work for the benefit of others?

Raising children has a spiritual and moral dimension. It is profoundly important. Putting some kind of economic value on my physical, emotional and spiritual investments in my kids to try and make a politician or business leader respect what I am doing is pure capitulation to a patriarchal and exploitative economic system.

I will not do it.

We have to include ALL women in our feminism. And we have to talk about economics and racism. Given the realities of our unfair economic system, this has to include a resistance to capitalism - not desperately trying to be accepted within it.

What work is more important than raising your own children well?

No one is complaining about the horrors of raising children and I don't think the OP was trying to make any political, racial or feminist statements. We don't know what ethnicity she is but you assume she is white and rich.
This has gotten off topic and to acknowledge someone works hard doesn't take anything away from anyone else no matter their colour, race, sex etc. It does not change wrongs done in the past nor improve or worsen injustice, disadvantage or poverty. The OP simply want to discuss the definition of work as described in the dictionary.
Of course raising children is of profound spiritual obligation and labour of love. It is the most important job in the world, we are accountable for teaching our children. It does not mean that it cannot be at times extremely hard. Caring for others is hard. The women forced to care for other families in order to support their own would agree that it is hard work.
Acknowledging a mother who is doing her best to love, nurture and teach her own children is working hard doesn't take anything away from those can't.

Everyone on the planet goes through struggles, some more than others, some due to society ie racism, others are in poverty, some have mental health issues. Very few if any have perfect lives. I read. Thread where it talked about rich wives who had it all but were being abused by their 'perfect' rich husband. No one knows what others go through. Yes all women should be included and supported. The SAHM, the working mum, the single mum, the childless women, all the single ladies (haha sorry just saw a glee episode the other day).

my mother was and from what I found out she would basically do all the housework, shopping, and admin while I was in school meaning that once I was home she would be fully available to supervise my homework and put together extra lessons for me etc. Then on the weekend it meant we had the time to only do fun things. This meant even growing up all I had to focus on was school because I had no extra chores

I'm sorry but this does not take all day every day.

No I disagree.

You set your own targets and deadlines. There is no pressure on your from managers.

You run the show and it’s up to you to take a relaxed path or a more high maintenance path. I know some children are more work than others (I have dc with special needs myself) but having been a sahm and both a part time and full time working Mum, being a sahm was 100 times easier!!

How much 'life admin' do people have that it takes up huge chunks of people's days every day.

Not this thread again hmm

By your argument, there are no unemployed people in the whole world. After all, even if you sit on your arse all day long playing video games then you are working, as you are expending mental effort to achieve a purpose.

Get over yourself. People look after kids and go out to work full time. Yes it's valuable to be at home with the kids but it's not working by most people's definition

Couldn't have out it better myself 😊

itsallthedramaMickiloveit you make a good point and to be honest when I was younger, and down trodden, in an unhealthy relationship with my ex, I probably would’ve as you say used it to explain an unemployment gap but now I’m older and know my worth, I’d hope I’d have the courage to say I was a homemaker for those two years. I once described myself as just a mum to a male doctor and he was genuinely shocked and told me don’t ever say that again, which shocked me, but I’ve never said just a mum again, about myself or any other women. I actually believe it’s quite archaic to look so poorly upon homemakers.

I think I'm missing something, I get the rich bit but why white privilege? I'm not trying to be a GF, I think I must have missed something.

I think most of the people here who are saying it's work have never done more than the 9-5 job. Raising kids is tiring and hard but it is not work.

Life admin paying bills and sorting out everyday paperwork isn’t it just something you need to do then file every few months when the pile gets too big.

what else should we add to the list of what adults do when running a home
with children

Quality control
H&S analysts and control
Stock control
Entertainment and events management
Nursing
Therapist
Mediator
Mentor

I’m sure many other roles can be added to the list of parenting and being a responsible adult

Really some people have too much time on their hands

I’m a paramedic and I think being a SAHM is hard work, if you are currently a SAHM please ignore the derogatory comments on here and carry on doing the amazing job you’re doing

@ineedsun - thank you for your polite responses. While in my message I gave several concrete examples of why this is a white privilege issue, I will explain a bit more:

For generations of poor women of colour who have separated from their children through structures like slavery, the prison industrial complex or racist assimilation policies in places like Australia, the US and Canada, the struggle is centred around the rights of women to simply keep their children. Just sit on that fact for a minute. Have a look at what Indigenous and Black feminists in places like Australia and North America are writing- they are talking about racism and capitalism as being absolute key concerns on their struggle.

Unfortunately, their voices are very really heard, because they are constantly drowned out by complaints of women in first-world countries. The issue of sahm mothers being acknowledged as workers has been addressed in the West for years. It is commonly understood that it is hard work- I have literally never heard anyone say otherwise, except in posts on mumnset by women married to uncommonly misogynistic and unappreciative men. It is also often written about in newspaper columns, tv shows and magazines, because middle class white women dominate these media. Meanwhile the terrible issues facing women of colour in poor communities remain unchallenged.

I posted my criticism as frankly I am tired of wealthy women- who yes, are most often white, because that’s the statistical reality - complaining constantly about their relatively minor struggles, after choosing to have kids, like humble-bragging/complaining about taking your kids to museums and libraries unlike Those Other Bad Mothers, so Therefore You Should Pat/Respect Us, while barely giving thought to women whose suffering is measurably worse.

Nowhere in my post did I say being a parent isn’t hard work. Of course it is.

What I am trying to do is to suggest that we need to support ALL women by critiquing and resisting the economic system we live, rather than assigning an economic value on our role and kids, in order to win some kind of respect. If we do that, those women who are unjustly separated or alienated from their children will remain unseen and unheard. And
I don’t think that’s the feminism we should be aiming for.

*Pay us!

Thank you astrogirl, I see where you're coming from and you make the point very eloquently.

As I say, I can see how it's a privilege with regards to wealth from a local and personal level but the global picture you describe is spot on and definitely something to reflect upon.

I guess the challenge is that most people in a position of privilege don't see that.

@IronShame have you ever tried to plan a lesson? she had to find work books, come up with ways to make the lessons fun (just to hear me complain that it was not fair and none of my friends had to do chinese lessons after school), she managed to get me English books and videos when we lived outside the uk so that trip alone would take an hour.

She cooked every meal I had from scratch pretty much and this was not any oven meals either. I was never even allowed a oven meal or a takeaway other then maybe once a year if I had guests over for my birthday etc. So the cooking probably took another 1-2 hours.

Yes she might haven taken a break during lunch but she would have deserved that break trust me. Staying at home is not the easy option. Andi should imagine before school it was even more work for her to be engaged with me all day pretty much none stop.

She cooked every meal I had from scratch pretty much and this was not any oven meals either.

In fairness, I work and I cook all my kids meals from scratch too. It’s not that big a deal.

She cooked every meal I had from scratch pretty much and this was not any oven meals either.

I always cook from scratch and work. It's not rocket science. Do you think working parents feed their kids on frozen pizza and takeaways???

@curlsnotfrizz of course not I am just saying running a house takes time. Especially if you don't cut corners or outsource at least some of the work.

I find going to work much easier than being a sahm. Paid employment is a fucking breeze and I'd love to go back to work for a break.

I cook majority of meals from scratch sometimes we have Kiev and chips (mmm might have that later)

I use frozen onions and other veg though 😁