To expect the babysitter to tidy up

[Idontfeellikeagrownup]

To expect the babysitter to tidy up

Backstory is me and DH are downtrodden and exhausted from parenting DD1 and DD2. We have no family locally and have only lived in the area for a year so don't really have many friends locally (interactions with other parents are limited to 'hi' and 'bye' at nursery and school drop offs).

We (me and DH) decided that we would go crazy (we don't get out much) and book a babysitter. We chose someone from DD2 care setting as they know both children (DD1 attends after school club there), are fully qualified in everything childcare related/DBS checked and we like them. We agreed the rate of £8 an hour (seems steep but she's got all the bells and whistles) and picked for the babysitter to watch the children during the afternoon (we can't stay awake past 9pm).

Yesterday was the agreed date and she arrived promptly. We showed her round/gave her instructions and when we left everyone was happy.

Me and DH had a lovely time and arrived home at 7pm ready to put the darlings to bed. We opened the door and well it looked like we had been burgled by an army of toddlers. There was not an inch of floor that wasn't covered in something (toys, craft stuff, books, make-up dressing up clothes - there was even glue sticks), the pots from dinner were left in the sink, two new toys were broken (taken from their box and trodden on) and this morning we have found dirty dishes under the sofa. My words walking into the house where "what on earth has happened here?". The babysitter made no effort to help me tidy (I had to start picking things as soon as I walked in otherwise I would have trodden on it) just got her coat and left.

Am I being unreasonable to expect her to have encouraged and helped the children to tidy up as they went along (she runs the toddler room at nursery so knows toddlers)? They were happy when we arrived home (sat on the sofa eating sweets and watching movies) but also high as kites. I really wasn't expecting to come home and spend two hours tidying up (it was that bad - there was even food crushed into the sofa) and have two very hyper children that took forever to get to sleep. It's made me not want to do it again.

How old are your children? Do they know that they should not have got all that stuff out or made so much mess? If so, I would have made them help clear everything up and put it away. I would also speak to them about going against the house rules when you're not there. If they are of school age then they've played a part in taking advantage of the babysitter.

FGS. NMW applies to employers of workers, not self employed arrangements where the SE person sets their own rates. Which is what this arrangement was. OP did not have an employment contract with her for regular work

www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/who-gets-the-minimum-wage

"Not entitled to the minimum wage
The following types of workers are not entitled to the National Minimum Wage or National Living Wage:
• self-employed peoplee_ running their own business
Etc.."

My 17 year old daughter babysits and always clears up after the children including loading the dishwasher with the dinner things - short of looking after a baby that literally can’t be put down there is no reason for her to have left your place such a mess.

Fair point sparticus that was clumsy wording, I totally read it that the babysitter was engaging the children in lots of activities and focusing on the children and didn't have time to clean up after them. Alternatively it could be that she sat on the sofa the whole time and let them trash the place. I am leaning towards the OP not being unreasonable to at least expect toys to be tidied up and used crockery put by the sink, but expecting the washing up to be done with what sounds like two very demanding children to look after, I think is above and beyond.

We agreed the rate of £8 an hour (seems steep)

She is in her early thirties

YABU for paying below minimum wage and as such you are lucky she is willing work for you at all.

She must've been desperate for the money. Who is she anyway? Mayne you should get a vetted babysitter. I would never leave my precious children with someone for such low pay.

If she's early 30s and qualified and doesn't see anything wrong with handing back a shit tip, she isn't the sitter for you. I'd try to find someone else and just make your expectations clear: "We don't expect you to clean the house, but if you could do the dishes and put the toys back in the toy bin that would be great".

Sparticuscaticus, even if minimum wage doesn’t apply here for self employed, is the current UK minimum wage £8.21?

In which case given it was all cash in hand, OP was effectively already paying minimum wage or have I got that wrong?

If your children are well behaved why did they trash the house and break their toys? Did you get them to help you tidy? If not why did you expect your babysitter to do it?
You should have made the rules clear and it sounds like she cooked for your children too (something she wouldn't do in nursery) so couldn't watch them every second.
I!I'm amazed your house was spotless when she arrived with two young children and that it took you two hours to tidy up unless you have a 6 bedroom house.
Rate of pay is okay if that's what she asked for but you should have made your expectations clear.

Did she know at what time you would be back?

Maybe you returned early and she was planning to tidy up before you arrived?

YABU for paying below minimum wage and as such you are lucky she is willing work for you at all.

Can someone please tell me what the UK minimum wage is?! Someone has said it doesn’t apply for self employed and someone else has pointed out this was cash in hand no NI or tax but it might settle the whole issue of paying minimum wage or not if we know what it actually is currently in the UK?!?!

If the place was tidy when you left her, honestly I would expect things to be maintained. You get something out, it’s put away before the next thing is got out.
Obviously if the house looked like a tornado had swept through when she arrived I wouldn’t expect her to get the place up to tenancy-inspection-standard!

https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage-rates

Is your google not working cheeseandpineapple?

@cheeseandpineapple

A very simple google would have told you this but here you go...

Here’s the latest national limits as of April 2019 that are legally binding:

	25 and over: £8.21
	21-24: £7.70
	18-20: £6.15
	Under 18: £4.35
	Apprentice: £3.90

With the increase on April 1, 20200_, these will now stand at:

	25 and over: £8.72
	21-24: £8.20
	18-20: £6.45
	Under 18: £4.55
	Apprentice: £4.15

Guessing the baby sitter isn't likely to be paying tax on her additional earnings from babysitting, so I wouldn't apply NMW. She seemed happy with the amount, she didn't have to do it.

So all of you who would be shocked by the toys all over, don’t your children play with their toys when you are there? On the one hand, you’re saying it’s perfectly acceptable for small children to scatter toys everywhere, but then it’s not because the “babysitter“ should have put them away. That’s totally contradictory though; if children are allowed their toys all over the floor, why do they then have to be put away at a specified time? Surely they’d be all over the floor if the OP was at home or not? If I was looking after children who got all their toys at at once, I’d assume they were allowed to. It’s not up to a babysitter to police that, surely 🤷‍♀️.

I think people are being a bit harsh. I'd be slightly pissed if it was a right state. However, I'd be more pleased the kids had fun and were happy. I'd just let it go this time, but next time add ,'it was a bloody mess last time. The kids should know how to tidy up, just make them have a clear up before they get the next thing out thanks!' Leave it at that.

YANBU. You paid what she asked for. You were not late back. It’s a reasonable expectation to be able to return to your home and find it’s not been trashed by over excited children who are in the care of a responsible adult. The babysitter should have shown some modicum of respect towards your home. Yes, encourage play but be sensible - no need to have all the toys out and resulting chaos. No excuse for the ground-in food either. Was she even supervising your children or was it just a free for all? You were clearly not expecting her to do your housework, just act in a reasonable, sensible manner in someone’s home.

Surely they’d be all over the floor if the OP was at home or not?

As evidenced by her shock, I'd say no.

I don't think anyone (almost) would think that it was normal for a parent to want or allow toys to be scattered all over the room, or that very young children autoregulate or will keep to parents' rules on their own accord.

Way underpaid her for babysitting two when both awake. That's just about reasonable if it's just being in the house after kids are put to bed. However if she agreed to the rate then trashing your house is obviously a bit shit.

She didn't agree to the rate! She told the OP the rate.

The OP agreed to it!

I think you should take this as a lesson to make sure you are much more specific in future about what is and what isn’t acceptable.

I wouldn’t be impressed to come home to toys everywhere but they can all be put away within a few minutes. The food would annoy me more but even so, after some child free time I’d feel a bit more rejuvenated to have a quick whizz round with the vacuum and cloth or get DH to do it whilst I sorted out the toys.

I don’t think babysitters here charge less than £15 per hour and always round up (so you pay for three hours if you are gone for 2hrs 5mins) but if she stated her going rate was £8 then I can understand you paying her that.

Your mistake was posting in AIBU, not on Mumsnet in general.

For what it's worth, I'd be furious. She'd made your job 100x harder when you got home, completely undoing all the good feeling for your nice afternoon.

If you want her to be a cleaner as well then pay her a cleaners wage on top of the £8.

Yes, she told the OP a rate that didnt include tidying up. If the OP doesnt like it then she can find someone who offers a better service for the same price. Or not.