AIBU to think Europe should let refugees in

[Gin96]

Surely Europe has room for these people?

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/world-news/eu-accuses-turkey-of-using-desperate-migrants-for-political-purposes/07/03/

Where on earth do you suppose they all should live? I’m guessing they should be shipped up north? Well as a northerner we have already taken a significant amount of refugees and migrants, causing major social issues. Schools are at capacity and having to fund extra services for non English speaking children. Some areas are no longer welcoming to local people. Some attitudes to young women have changed.

Anyone genuinely seeking refuge should obviously be helped, however the nhs, the benefits system, housing etc would collapse if we established an open door policy. But no one seems to care if they make it the problem of the north of England....

It is not a solution to let them in, it is a failure to address the problem.
I agree, and with other pps with similar posts.

The OP is about what to do with the refugees or migrants flowing through Turkey.
So far, the EU and the UK haven't been much concerned beyond taking a few thousands over the years and sending help for survival.

My point is that we can't blame Erdogan alone.

This is the problem with Europeans, you’re all so introspective that you miss the bigger picture. If you open boarders instead of increasing your intake of refugees as close to source as possible by accepting fast tracked applications within refugee camps directly outside affected areas then you encourage people to go on risky journeys to get to your boarder. This means that more people die, there is more money going to people smugglers (often then going to terrorist ground or other criminal organisations and helping to keep trafficking routes open and well serviced) and the most vulnerable refugees who need the help most and the least likely to reach your boarder.

You can’t ignore people until they get to your boarders. You either truly care and want to set up regional processing centres and peacekeeping missions or you want to ignore the outside world and make small concessions when you’re forced to acknowledge problems choosing to making things worse for everyone else in order to make yourself feel better. People living in Europe need to grow up and either admit that they don’t give a shit or make a genuine effort to help even if that means diverting funds from doing up your local high street or building a totally unnecessary motorway in Poland.

Yes they should however the issue is that Greece has been letting them in and then the rest of Europe has not allowed them out of Greece. They are sitting in camps in Greece, in some cases on islands that have their own severe economic issues, and not moving any further. Turkey has now increased this number and Europe's answer is to build more camps in Greece....

Where is this going to end, desperate people do desperate things, Erdorgon has been very clever in making the West look uncaring and heartless. I hope there is some answer that someone can come up with or this doll going to end very badly.

@ByeMF the 78% aren’t blind to the fact that ‘helping’ will be a form of genocide. These kinds of policies literally entice people to their deaths. Don’t you remember what happened when Germany ‘welcomed’ refugees a couple of years ago, did all the pictures of drowned children go over your head?

Those of us who have experience of the way the current system works know that it does more harm than good, the only solution is to keep telling people like you what happens when you put your feelings of moral superiority above refugees lives. You are no better than racists and xenophobes who want to keep this people out, in some ways you are worse. I grew up amongst families with gaps where mothers, baby brothers, grandfathers etc had drowned or dropped dead on the way. My own family has those gaps and the effect of that trauma has last generations. It’s not good enough to say you’re helping, either actually help or fuck off.

You can’t ignore people until they get to your boarders

The UK didn't, it has given a lot of aid to the camps and said it would take refugees from the camps to disincentivise trafficking etc. I disagree with David Cameron with a lot of things but he tried to deal with the problem at source.

As for sending the refugees "up north", I think some were sent to the Isle of Bute. Not sure how they settled in.

@cologne4711 what does the Isle of Bute have to do with anything? Not getting the point your making (genuinely)

Going to get a roasting for this and happy to hear your opinions..... The moral argument is difficult as the more people who come into the country the greater the pressure on infrastructure which could have negative impacts on the current population. For example, increased demand for healthcare and medicines means less money per person which reduces the ability to provide quality healthcare, so reduced quality for all.

If there are more people who can do the low paid jobs (not all migrants I know are low skilled but a large number are) means minimum wage remains stagnant as we don't need to provide incentive for people to do the jobs no one really want to do.

Increased demand on schooling means less time/money per pupil so quality of a schooling reduces which could impact on someone for a lifetime.

It's great to be humane and deeply care for the welfare of others, it's what makes us human, but really you can't say on one breath we should let anyone join us and in the next complain your child hasn't got a space in the local school due to lack of spaces or complain that you can't get a doctors appointment for 3 weeks, or your hospital doesn't have enough beds.

We have nearly 10 million more people here than in the year 2000 and it has knock on effects unfortunately, majority of which is caused by migration. We have increased numbers by 17% but we do not have 17% more schools or hospitals or gps. We can't support everyone, so the numbers coming in should in my opinion be kept at a sensible level. To determine this I think really you would have to establish the basic quality of life and services you would want per person and only increase population at a rate to not impact this.

Just had a little read to see how the refugees who were sent to bute. Some families are still there and have opened up business, a lot have left to go to the major cities and some were said to have complained that Bute was full of old people waiting to die 🤔 that was a telegraph headline from a few years back

Where is this going to end, desperate people do desperate things, Erdorgon has been very clever in making the West look uncaring and heartless.

I'm sure he has. Yet it is the West who is being asked to take them all in. It's not other middle Eastern countries, it's not Asian countries. It's always the West. They are of a culture that is Middle Eastern and Asian. If I needed to leave Britain in a hurry I would never attempt to become a refugee in separate continents with cultures so different from mine.

There is certainly not enough room on this one little island, we are already overpopulated. I do not know about every single other European country, but it is unrealistic to expect anywhere to take in the population of entire countries. We are not talking about a few individuals here or there. We're talking about millions. What is urgently needed is for the area to stabilise, and for humans to stop making entire regions of the world uninhabitable while population levels everywhere are at straining point.

Yet it is the West who is being asked to take them all in. It's not other middle Eastern countries, it's not Asian countries. It's always the West. They are of a culture that is Middle Eastern and Asian.

That's not quite true.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

"Syrian refugee camps established in Turkey (3,614,108),[3] Lebanon (929,624),[4] Jordan (662,010),[5] Egypt (131,433),[6] and other countries."

If you read through, several other countries, including in the Middle East and Asia, and as far as South America, have offered and have received refugees. Some in the thousands.

Yes, of course we should. Humanity shouldn’t have borders

You start then. Take the front door off your home and welcome in all these young men to live with you and anyone else who needs help.

You'd expect more in local region areas, but South American involvement is impressive. It's always worth remembering that people will only travel as far as their resources allow: the immigrants we see coming further afield will be the richer groups from their own countries. We do need to deal with the problem at source, not the symptoms. Russia is driving this conflict as a proxy with the West. Diplomatic resources that are tied up with bloody Brexit everywhere could have (optimistically?) been better used right now.

@ghostyslovesheets

Hospitals are full of ‘migrants’ they are the DRs nurses cleaners etc

Yes and it is also full of migrants making use of the services of what has become the international health service.

Its fine inviting migration when there is a need and there is space, housing and services such as schools and doctors such as Australia do and require people to have the requisite skills they need. There isn't though. I know people that can't send there kids to the local school as "persons moving to the area" have higher priority on the school admissions criteria, and others, such as me have been fucking kicked out of a local doctors surgery due to "increases in the local population". Well there isn't an increase in our local population coming from local people I can tell you so it's one reason why people voted Brexit

I often wonder how many countries, especially muslim countries would be prepared to take us in if we needed to flee our homes. Would they give us homes, free health care, educate our children in our own beliefs, let us build churches, open our own shops and sell our own food requisites and let us build our own communities. Would they be as accommodating to others as we are. Maybe we could do more but at least we do something.

Honestly, I think Europe should only let in immigrants who are educated, financially solvent, criminal record-free, and willing to contribute to their country of choice. Tick all those boxes, and it really doesn't matter where they're from because that's someone I'd welcome with open arms.

That being said, if the UK were to lower income taxes to a level similar to that of the Swiss, and abolish both the capital gains and inheritance taxes, I might feel less strongly about those restrictions. Let the kindhearted folks set up charities to help all these 'poor souls' for all I care.

Honestly, I think Europe should only let in immigrants who are educated, financially solvent, criminal record-free, and willing to contribute to their country of choice

Honestly. I think it might be good of the same applied to our own citizens. Give me a hard-working immigrant to some of the overly entitled, economically inactive, ‘they are taking all that I want but haven’t worked for’ U.K. nationals who think their place of birth somehow confers a right to a better life.

And that is fascism CherryPavlova - wanting to ban the citizens you don’t like from their own country. That’s what creates refugees in the first place.

I don’t want to ban anyone. I’d just like a more level playing field instead of the ridiculous entitlement many who have contributed far less than our immigrant brethren yet feel a birth certificate with Margate written on it entitles then to a better life.

That isn’t actually what fascism is either.

It's the perpetuation of the old empire. Send us your good people and keep the frail and the ill. Still taking advantage of the other countries for our own benefit.

‘Honestly. I think it might be good of the same applied to our own citizens.’

That was what you wrote in response to someone saying only certain types should be let into the country.

It certainly isn’t the whole of fascism - you would need some militaristic expansionism to go along with stripping citizens of their entitlement to live in the U.K.

It’d be all very well if all the countries concerned had plenty of affordable housing going begging, school places, hospital beds, GPs, acceptable places for refugees to stay while they’re processed, sufficient teachers for the free language classes needed, etc.

And enough (taxpayer) money to pay for it all.

Unfortunately it’s not always the case that the supply of all these is going to equal the increasing demand.

I have had occasion to spend time in hospital in my city which is one of the most diverse in the country. The people in those hospital beds are almost without exception white British. Refugees and economic migrants are not crowding our hospitals.
Sadly this is not my experience. I've been in our local (London teaching) hospital many times over the last 8 or so years, both as an inpatient and outpatient. The number of people from other countries using the services is overwhelming. I tried not to notice but it's impossible. I spent 10 nights in one stay and couldn't chat to any of the women in the other three beds in the whole time (not the same people all the time) because they did not speak English. It was very depressing as a bit of bonding makes all the difference. It's also not great with the staff as they often have just enough English to do only routine things and often don't understand eachother. I recently had a mastectomy and all the other women patients in my bay spoke English and it made all the difference. The nurses however, very basic indeed

Yes let’s send them to Saudi Arabia where LGBT people are stoned, women’s rights are nil and wealth is even more concentrated than it is in Europe. Great idea!

Majority of these economic migrants will be homophobic. Human rights don't exist where they come from. They are a man made concept. Human rights aren't real.