AIBU to think Europe should let refugees in

[Gin96]

Surely Europe has room for these people?

www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/world-news/eu-accuses-turkey-of-using-desperate-migrants-for-political-purposes/07/03/

Syrian refugees my royal ass. A tiny percentage of these people are genuine Syrian refugees. Last year I visited the Canaries where I bumped into a group of migrants from Comoros heading to Europe.

Considering that the Canaries are in the Atlantic and Greece is on the eastern side of the Mediterranean, how are the two related?

Refugees yes, economic migrants, no.

Can I ask why if you have, changed your view since 2015? There was a lot of posts then about sending packages to Calais, even people were offering to take people into their homes?

Can I ask why if you have, changed your view since 2015?

Because many women have realised that most of these people are not genuine refugees but mostly young male economic migrants with poor views of women/gay rights/other minorities and therefore pose a threat to their way of life and safety.

Look at the mass sexual assault in Cologne not to mention all the child "refugees" who turn out to be 35 year old men. It's understandable as a woman to worry for yourself, your daughters and other female family members and friends.

Lweji daft question. You might as well ask how did they get to the Canaries from Comoros. Does it matter? They did it, that’s the point.
There are many ports in Europe where they can sneak in. Some of them go to Greece because they know it’s a main entry point.
I mean, if they got to the Canaries from Comoros, from there it’s not so hard for them to go to Greece or any other entry points in the Mediterranean.

I do wonder for those saying "let them all in" if you truly comprehend how many "crap" countries there are in the world.
There are plenty of countries people are trying to leave, not just because of war, and tbh i would want to leave them too.
It's basic mathematics as to why europe cant house them all.

The few european countries who had colonies have given the countries independence or they won it by rebelling against the colonising countries. The last country who could reasonably claim to be exploited by a tryannical colonial system gained its independence in the early 1960s. Thus these former colonies have had over 50 years to transition from a colony to a successful nation. How many are thriving economies and how many are s*holes?

Also, countries which were colonised were colonised by nations saying "ha hah lets grab this country because we can mwha ha ha" The were colonised because they had assets which the colonising countres wanted to grab - this is accepted as wrong now, but many countries still ahve these assets whether material, mineral or otherwise. It is corruption and tribalism that is holding them back. Likewise the former colonies who have homophobic laws - but they date back to bad colonial days - so why have they not been reformed as soon as they gained enlightenment? (crickets).

@Potatobug
You're just showing your lack of understanding about people's movements now in addition to lack of geography knowledge.
People showing up in the Canaries are not the same showing up in Greece. You can't conclude about those reaching Greece through Turkey from what you've seen in the Canaries, ffs.

Thus these former colonies have had over 50 years to transition from a colony to a successful nation.
If only it was as simple as that...

Why is it always Europe? Why not the Middle Eastern countries? They are rich countries and in a lot of cases share the same religious beliefs. So why is it Europe that has to open the borders and let them in.

A lot of the refugees are economic migrants, they want a better life and that is completely understandable. But the sheer numbers of people trying to move across the world is unsustainable.

Why is it always Europe? Why not the Middle Eastern countries?

see previous posts.

Lweji it is you who doesn’t understand. It has nothing to do with geography. This is exactly what we are discussing here. That not all of them are coming from Syria. They are coming from all over the place, Africa, Afghanistan, all kinds of Middle Eastern countries, places where there’s no war, but they all enter Europe somewhere around the Mediterranean and claim to be refugees. They burn their ID papers so nobody can trace their origins.

YABU. Erdogan is using 'refugees' to force a proxy war with Greece.

In this crisis, 76% of those detained are men, single, from Pakistan and Afghanistan, then a smaller amount from other countries and just 4% are Syrian nationals. Just to put some perspective on this. They are not refugees, the vast majority are economic immigrants circumnavigating our laws and trying to access our countries by force. It doesn't help that the Turkish president lies to them and uses them as weapons to get his own way on other subjects. This is a disgusting use of human beings. I stand by Greece.

I thought the thread was about Turkey letting migrants through...

Examples from the Canaries are not really relevant, particularly when they are used to conclude (explicitly on the post) that Syrian refugees are not refugees.

The thread is about Europe should accept immigrants or not. Where they enter is mainly from Turkey now but (nearly) every part of Europe that is connected to Africa/ the Middle East has this issue. It’s only Erdogan’s blackmail tactics dominating the news now people trying to cross borders illegally has happened for years in many places including appearently on the Canary Islands as @Potatobug has mentioned.....

Most people's problem is that the ones that are let in aren't spread out over the country but crammed into urban areas that are already overcrowded and underfunded.
It's not difficult to understand the frustration with the effect this has on services. Or the feeling of displacement by people as they look around their local high street and no one looks like them or sounds like them (a lot of older people feel this). Peole get shouted down as racist for expressing these views so no meaningful conversation is had, leading to frustration and Brexit voting (I was remain by the way and have an immigrant parent).

So much virtue signalling on these type of threads.

A country can either have open borders or a welfare state. Strangely they seem to think you can have both.

It's the perpetuation of the old empire. Send us your good people and keep the frail and the ill. Still taking advantage of the other countries for our own benefit

Well we can't just turn up in Australia or New Zealand or Canada. The old dominions are fussy about who they take from the "mother" country. Not sure I could just turn up in India and live there, either, but I've not looked into it.

As for my Isle of Bute comment, I just meant that refugees weren't just being sent to the north of England.

InfiniteSheldon Sun 08-Mar-20 07:40:06
Perhaps people feel men should be at home fighting for democracy and freedom for their wives, mothers, children, disabled, old and sick? Many people would be 100% happy to help refugees in fact lots of us do but male economic migrants not so much.

I hope InfiniteSheldon doesn't mind me quoting this!

Most people's problem is that the ones that are let in aren't spread out over the country but crammed into urban areas that are already overcrowded and underfunded. It's not difficult to understand the frustration with the effect this has on services. Or the feeling of displacement...

That's exactly the issue: displacement. A big part of the problem is the way migrants are clustered together into working class neighbourhoods which causes an inevitably fierce scramble for resources, particularly for housing. When social housing waiting lists jump from 4-6 years to 12-15 years local people are put in the position of having children nearly ready to leave home before they are housed. Matters aren't helped by the underhand way many councils prioritise and fast-track migrants and treat local people like fools who can't see with their own eyes how the circumstances of their lives have changed and observe the very obvious reasons for it.

Also there is the issue of schooling. How are people expected to feel when they themselves have attended the local school, their eldest children have attended the same school, then they go to enroll their youngest child and all of a sudden there are no school places available yet scores and scores of children with no ancestral connection to the nation, never mind the neighourhood, running around the schoolyard? This causes inevitable resentment, not towards the children, but towards the displacement of ones own children.

The government has no business taking in foreign people without making adequate provisions for them. Displacing indigenous people and their children and grandchildren from neighbourhoods and schools is immoral and bloody designed to cause bad feeling - and no, it's not about racism - it's about justifiable resentment.

YABU massively

@LouiseCollina the migrants want to be in the bigger cities though, probably to be with other people from their country, more chance of work etc. Even if they were placed further out they would soon make their way to a city

the migrants want to be in the bigger cities though, probably to be with other people from their country, more chance of work etc. Even if they were placed further out they would soon make their way to a city

Yes you're right, which is why we should take in people who have been displaced because of war, natural disasters etc, not everyone who simply wants to be here. We do that ad infinitum and, as I said earlier, it'll be standing room only across Europe.

Absolutely, I totally agree