To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

[Ruby8719]

Am I being unreasonable to think that some (not all) mumsnetters hate men and can’t wait to jump in and tell women to leave their husbands?

Obviously there are a lot of stories on here about husbands/boyfriends/dads that sound like arseholes but the amount of comments I see from strangers telling women to leave their men for making a mistake is crazy!!

I talked about the dangers of these things in my post that Hooves was replying to. I find it very, very unlikely that Hooves gave exactly the same advice to Hooves’ son as Hooves gave to Hooves’ daughter about MeToo or porn or strip clubs.

Unless Hooves is just flat out stating that they think women are completely equal to men in all aspects of society, and there’s no point in making any distinctions whatsoever.

'You’re asking why a man might get a different response from women, and I’ve explained why. A better question might be - why seek out women for that advice? Why not seek out other men?

Because this is a site where issues like that are raised'

An interesting question might be, why aren't men talking about these things.

'Also no acknowledgement of the point I’ve made about the difference between men and women. That just doesn’t suit your argument does it?'

Which differences? Like that 97% ish of people in prison for sex offences are men?

(Waits for someone to say women are just as bad but they never get/ police ignore it/ etc... But the recent news around male victims, yet again the perpetrators were guess what, men).

I Think a part of the problem is some men who would probably consider themselves a good guy is they have a remarkable ability to compartmentalise the women in their life away from Things That Happen to Other Women.

For example, a close male relative of mine was raised by kind, compassionate and respectful parents who expected their sons to extend this courtesy to all they meet. However, even though he's married with three very young girls he will visit strip cubs and pay for a private dance. You know, performed by someone's else's daughter/sister.

So many men see women who are treated badly, harassed, assaulted, disrespected and hurt by other men, as different some how to the women they're close to. It's as if their responsibility is to keep these women safe (maybe for some it harks back to days of us being the property of our father then husband? Who knows) and then lock t6e door and hope for the best. Until the bad thing happens to their daughter/sister/wife.

Sorry pumper not read your post.

I do think that people who, in conversations about male violence, say, oh what about the male victims of women, have a skewed view.

It takes a special kind of arsehole to fret about female “rapists” and the poor male victims when women commit less than 1% of sex crimes, whilst thousands of women are raped every year and are often treated appallingly.

It takes a special kind of arsehole to brush over the 2 women every week killed by their partner or ex, to instead focus on male victims of female violence (a minority) on a female centric forum where many women have spoken about their experiences.

It takes a special kind of spectacularly thick arsehole to compare racism to women not being kind enough to men or centring them in conversation. To whine over perceived double standards against men, whilst ignoring the many more that favours them and disadvantage women.

No point arguing with someone this dense.

I've seen loads of threads where men have been told to ltb

Been here years and years and never seen a LTB suggestion that's not linked to emotional, financial, physical abuse.
I think the OP is wrong

Echoing a pp when I say that most women have no idea how much men hate us. The growing MGTOW cult is beyond vile, MN dislike of men is nothing compared to their hatred of women, especially women who are over 30 and have been sexually active with more than 2 partners. Extreme misogynistic double standards

I have a male friend who reads that crap. It is disgusting and doesnt seem like his thing - as a friend he is respectful and interested in what his female friends say. He often wonders why he can't find a woman who wants to have a relationship with him - he goes for women much younger than him (he's 50's) who don't have money or even a proper career and then accuses them of wanting to trap him even though he throws money at them. I did suggest that maybe he look for so,some nearer his age

The thing that annoys me on here is that women who try to point out that maybe the man is not being unreasonable by eg having a female friend (whose just a friend) or whatever are called cool wives or handmaidens. The things that some posters say they wouldn't put up with is astounding and if a man said that about a women then she would rightly be told to LTB.

On the other hand I often can't believe the absolute hell some women put up with in their relationships.

And the domestic violence and abuse issue ... I've seen many threads discussing this and whilst no one would deny plenty of victims are men and most will agree this is not acceptable, I know my blood begins to boil when posters seem to gloss over the stark difference in how these cases often end up ... the chances of the the woman dying are undoubtedly higher than a man.

Sometimes we're so tired from picking up the pieces when a woman is again murdered at the hands of someone she trusted it's hard to find reserves to campaign on behalf of men, when so many of the so called Good Ones are happy to sit back and let someone else do it whilst declaring tosh like NAMALT.

And strip clubs? Porn? MeToo? Any of that come up?

You've got some brass neck pumper. I gave a much fuller, more detailed answer to the question than you did.

Your answer to the same question was

They’ve been raised to understand that women are not fair game. They’ve been raised to understand that society will absolutely absolve them of that responsibility and that’s not good enough.

So did you reach your son's about strip clubs? Porn? Me too? Any of that come up, only you sure didn't mention it in your response.

Some do. I don't hate them, just dislike most. Based on my life experiences.

The response to that is usually that

All violence is bad. And it's a 'people' problem, it shouldn't be looked at in terms of sex of perpetrators/ victim as this is not reasonable or fair.

Also hearhoovesthibkzebras What sort of things have you in mind that you think MN would perceive as abusive but you think are not? (Things your husband does?)

Sorry, I've got no idea what this question means. My husband doesn't do anything that's abusive.

And the domestic violence and abuse issue ... I've seen many threads discussing this and whilst no one would deny plenty of victims are men and most will agree this is not acceptable,

Well, reading the Caroline Flack and Jonny Depp threads most do think that domestic violence against men is at least excusable, if not acceptable.

Of course there will be overreactions. However, I would say the opposite,- alot of really disgusting abusive behaviours get excused via the "maybe he has mental health issues!" BS. Eg, a poster recently said her H repeatedly called her a "fat cunt", another one said her H was lazy, did nothing around the house and got told "maybe he has ADHD?" or "Maybe he is depressed?" - I mean, really? maybe he's just a lazy git- not every poor behaviour can be excused by MH issues. Even if MH issues are at play, that doesnt mean anyone needs to be an emotional punching bag for the rest of their life.

Ive honestly been shocked how much shitty, selfish and abusive behaviour gets reasoned away by this MH excuse. I work in MH so its not like I'm not sympathetic to it, but if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and acts like a duck, its a bloody duck.

So did you reach your son's about strip clubs? Porn? Me too? Any of that come up, only you sure didn't mention it in your response.

Did you give your son and your daughter the same advice? No answer?

Of course you didn’t.

But I don't agree with that either Mimi. I really don't see why so many responses have to be so extreme or so black and white on threads.

A couple seemingly cannot have an argument without it being deemed abusive. One of the threads I was reading yesterday and a posters description of what a marital disagreement should look like was hilarious - pretty much that both parties sit down, calmly list their issues, each one carefully listening and then responding whereupon an agreement will be reached and they can hug it out - I really kid you not.

In reality, couples argue. Nothing particularly nasty or abusive is said but not is it like a peace summit at the United Nations. But you can't comment on a thread that it's 6 of 1 and half a dozen of the other because then your accused of "not my Nigel" , of being a man or an mra.

The "he called me a dick" thread is a prime example. Was he wrong for calling her a dick? Probably. Was she wrong for banning his mum simply because she was born in China? Yes. So both wrong.

Pumperthepumper

And you haven't answered it at all.

I haven't ever given either of them advice on porn or strip clubs. What sort of advice have you given your children? The best clubs to go to or something?

I have always discussed issues like porn, strip clubs, prostitution with them though as soon as it was appropriate. They both know my views on these issues and we have great debates about the issues that they raise, particularly around individual freedom Vs impact on society.

My back ground is as a sexual health/urology nurse though so I'm very comfortable with talking about all aspects of sex, so it's not a subject that is shied away from.

Now maybe you could answer?

Why shouldn't some women hate men? Some have suffered terribly at the hands of men in a system which is systematically screwed to favour men and discriminate against women.

I qualified that view with my personal tipping point in a discussion of when my sympathy starts to ebb away in correlation to how many posters jump on to try to say that because men are often victims too this is as important an issue as the serious injury and death rate of female victims.

From what I've read here many posters actually think domestic abuse committed by women is wrong and should be addressed however if one sex is regularly being murdered by the other during a similar incident that is a much bigger problem. Violence against women is without doubt more deadly. I think that is where the bias comes from.

@hearhoovesthinkzebras

I disagree. Calling your partner a "fat cunt" is abusive and I would not put up with that kind of language from someone who supposedly "loves me". You can argue and scream and shout at each other without using gross words like that. H and I argue alot but we've never done that to each other. Its perfectly possible to have very heated arguments without swearing and cursing at each other.

MimiLaRue

But I haven't said that calling your partner a fat cunt is ok.

I just don't think that calling them a dick, or a twat, or a knob, within the context of an ordinary argument is abusive.

Many people swear. I get that you don't agree with it but as a rule swearing doesn't make you abusive.

@mimilarue I'd rather have an argument with someone who called me a fat cunt than someone who screamed at me

But I haven't said that calling your partner a fat cunt is ok

That was the exact example I gave upthread.
Its not ok, and it shows deep disrespect for someone. The poster said in her thread thats what her partner called her whilst also doing other dickish things. In that context, it was abusive and completely appropriate for people to tell her to leave him.

I'm not referring to normal arguments between couples- I said in my original post I was shocked by the horrendous and abusive behaviour people excuse on the basis of "MH issues" which is true.