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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

508 replies

Ruby8719 · 05/03/2020 14:53

Am I being unreasonable to think that some (not all) mumsnetters hate men and can’t wait to jump in and tell women to leave their husbands?

Obviously there are a lot of stories on here about husbands/boyfriends/dads that sound like arseholes but the amount of comments I see from strangers telling women to leave their men for making a mistake is crazy!!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 06/03/2020 09:36

just leaving this here

Cheeserton · 06/03/2020 09:40

Suggest you might find www.pistonheads.com/gassing/ more to your liking then? Why bother staying here?

Typical of the rash polarising reactions. Why assume that someone bothered by misandry would therefore like a site ridden with mysogny? Confused

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 09:40

Hooves you and I have had this exact discussion a thousand times and it always ends the same way - I ask you a question and you ignore it, then start up a chain of mythical situations where you ask me why the woman is not treated EXACTLY the same as the man. You already know how this is going to go.

The average man, men as a class, ALL MEN, etc - don’t do enough to combat male violence. That’s the bottom line.

Society teaches men that women’s bodies are fair game - you can literally pay for a woman you’ve never met and don’t care about to dance naked for you and your friends, and this is considered standard entertainment and is to be protected and cherished.

My Nigel would never be violent to a woman - unless she asks him to choke her during sex. He will go along with this willingly because she asked for it. If he kills her then it’s her fault because she wanted it. Also she’d enjoyed rough sex in the past.

My Nigel would never rape, masked in an alleyway. But if his wife is a bit too drunk and he’s a bit belligerent and a bit too sulky, she’ll give in and that’s not rape or coercion. That’s just being a good wife.

My Nigel believes violence is wrong - yet gives his sons guns to play with and teaches them how to punch ten times harder to ‘stand up for themselves’.

My Nigel believes #MeToo is valid. Yet he joins in with office banter and wolf whistles when the other men do. He watches porn and doesn’t give a second thought to where these women came from, or how likely it is they’re trafficked or abused. He’d be appalled if that was his daughter, because she belongs to him and is therefore much more valuable property than these anonymous women on his phone. When two women accuse his favourite singer of rape, he thinks ‘well, they’re probably after his money’. When a hundred women come forward he’ll think ‘nah, they won’t all be telling the truth’.

This is quite a long post so I’ll stop now, but I’ve got loads of these.

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 09:42

I think you could well be Eckhart, if that’s your understanding of that post.

Cheeserton · 06/03/2020 09:44

why do you see it as an affront to your Good Men?

Well, I guess it's because my DH hasn't ever committed DV and is a loving, caring, supporting father who does his share and doesn't deserve calling a rapist or similar. Is that so tricky to understand?

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 09:48

It is, yes. If he’s such a good man then why feel the need to defend him against rapists? Did you ever explain why you think NAMALT stops your son from being a rapist? That get out clause that makes him much more special than the other boys, different to the bad ones, STOPS him from believing he’s entitled to sex?

Eckhart · 06/03/2020 09:49

Typical of the rash polarising reactions. Why assume that someone bothered by misandry would therefore like a site ridden with misogyny

Yes. It's 'you don't agree with me, so leave.'

The vote is roughly half and half. I imagine that the YANBUs will mostly stay, despite the unsolicited advice of others, because they can either avoid the misandry, or find arguments against it when it crops up.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 09:52

Pumperthepumper

I don't recognise your name so no idea if we've discussed this before.

You accuse me of not answering your question and yet have not answered one of mine - how does all that you've posted there become relevant to an individual man, posting for advice?

How is it applicable to that man that other men commit rape, or domestic abuse or go to strip clubs? How is it relevant?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 09:54

Pumperthepumper

Do you have a son?

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 09:54

It’s relevant because it leads society to see what happens to women’s bodies as different to what happens to men’s bodies.

So if you want ‘equality’ (everyone treated exactly the same) you’ve got a long way to go before men and women get or give EXACTLY the same advice to each other.

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 09:56

I have more than one son! And more than one daughter. Why do you ask?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 09:59

It’s relevant because it leads society to see what happens to women’s bodies as different to what happens to men’s bodies.

It's relevant on a thread where a man is the victim of domestic abuse is it? How?

I asked if you had a son because I'm wondering about how you've raised them. Have they been raised being told that they belong to a class that you despise? Do you hold them responsible for rape?

PrimeroseHillAnnie · 06/03/2020 10:00

Thing is you're only getting on side of it and I've often wondered , after wading through War and Peace of some woman royally going into one , what the other side of the story is ?.

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 10:03

You’re asking why a man might get a different response from women, and I’ve explained why. A better question might be - why seek out women for that advice? Why not seek out other men?

I asked if you had a son because I'm wondering about how you've raised them. Have they been raised being told that they belong to a class that you despise? Do you hold them responsible for rape?

And here we go with your usual line of enquiry! They’ve been raised to understand that women are not fair game. They’ve been raised to understand that society will absolutely absolve them of that responsibility and that’s not good enough. How have you raised your children?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 10:08

Thing is you're only getting on side of it and I've often wondered , after wading through War and Peace of some woman royally going into one , what the other side of the story is ?.

Absolutely. On a thread recently the op complained that her husband had called her a dick because they'd had a row in the supermarket. Immediately she was told that he was abusive, she should leave etc etc. Apparently this is not normal in a non abusive relationship and absolutely nothing could justify him calling her that.

Strangely, on doing an advanced search it seemed much clearer that the op was actually a big part of the problem including one thread where she asked if she was being unreasonable for banning her mil from visiting because she was Chinese and therefore a potential Cartier of covid 19 - not that she had visited China (or Italy) or had been in contact with anyone who had it but simply that she originated from China. Suddenly, her husband calling her a dick seemed quite understandable.

Cheeserton · 06/03/2020 10:11

explain why you think NAMALT stops your son from being a rapist?
I haven't said that. I have said that including all men in the debate is necessary,, just not in the unhelpful and hypocritical terms that some posters immediately resort to. Regarding NAMALT, I pointed out that such extreme postings inevitably lead to that predictable opposite response. Both are actually unhelpful. As usual though, and as demonstrated by your uber defensiveness, it's often not possible to argue for any middle way without being lumped in with one polar view or any another, even though they don't represent my views. It's shit for everyone.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 10:14

You’re asking why a man might get a different response from women, and I’ve explained why. A better question might be - why seek out women for that advice? Why not seek out other men?

Because this is a site where issues like that are raised. If someone was to Google for resources around such issues no doubt MN would show up. A better question might be why shouldn't he ask on here?

Do you question non parents as to why they post anything on a parenting website? I bet you don't because it doesn't matter. It's a public forum where anyone can post. Just because you don't like that it doesn't mean that someone looking for help is deserving of abuse.

They’ve been raised to understand that women are not fair game. They’ve been raised to understand that society will absolutely absolve them of that responsibility and that’s not good enough. How have you raised your children?

That's how you've raised your sons? That society absolves them of responsibility?

How have you expected them to change other men, or to be responsible for how men as a class behave?

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 10:18

Hooves, it’s actually textbook - if you read a few posts up you’ll see I actually predicted you’d do exactly this! Loads of mythical questions and a solid determination to think that everyone just hates men and that’s it.

How have you raised your children? You didn’t answer.

Eckhart · 06/03/2020 10:19

it's often not possible to argue for any middle way without being lumped in with one polar view or any another, even though they don't represent my views. It's shit for everyone

Quite. I've had really objectionable words/opinions put into my mouth on this thread, and then told I'm stupid for holding such beliefs. It makes healthy debate impossible.

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 10:19

Also no acknowledgement of the point I’ve made about the difference between men and women. That just doesn’t suit your argument does it?

Sagradafamiliar · 06/03/2020 10:21

So predictable.

Eckhart · 06/03/2020 10:26

Yes, we all continue to hold our views, Sagrada. That's not news.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 06/03/2020 10:28

Pumperthepumper

You can accuse me or predict anything. I'm not making up wild scenarios - I am citing actual threads and posts that were made. You trying to put up smoke and mirrors won't change that - it cannot be appropriate on an individual's thread to start excusing what is happening to them on the basis that men have done X,y and z to women for years.

How have I raised my son? In the same way I raised my daughter - to know right from wrong, to have a conscience, both personal and social, to stand up for what they believe is right, to always do their best to do the right thing and to treat others as they would want to be treated.

I certainly haven't raised my son as a would be rapist, or told him that society wouldn't hold him responsible for his behaviour. He hasn't been raised responsible for every crime ever committed by a man either in the past, present or future.

Pumperthepumper · 06/03/2020 10:46

I certainly haven't raised my son as a would be rapist, or told him that society wouldn't hold him responsible for his behaviour. He hasn't been raised responsible for every crime ever committed by a man either in the past, present or future.

And strip clubs? Porn? MeToo? Any of that come up?

Cheeserton · 06/03/2020 10:49

And strip clubs? Porn?
Why on earth would you assume she wouldn't educate on matters like that?? Yet again, take a point then extrapolate to the extreme...