What is fair financially?

[AmIbeingtoomean]

NC as going to give lots of detail. Long sorry.

My boyfriend and I have been discussing moving in together but had a chat yesterday where he thinks I am asking too much. I have been in a cocklodger situation previously so worried I am being too harsh. Neither of us have children.

My situation:
I own a nice 3 bed house in a less nice area of an expensive (not London) city. My income is £2000 salary per month shortly rising to £2,600 following promotion. I have always had lodgers and my current one pays £400 a month all inclusive - slightly below market rent. My mortgage is £600 a month and all my household bills (including mortgage, excluding car and groceries) comes to £950 a month.

BF has a salary of £1,800 per month shortly rising to £1,900. He pays rent of £625 and his household bills total £850 each month. He has some money saved in a help to buy ISA and could right now buy a tiny flat in a similar area to me.

He doesn't want to move in while I have a lodger so will wait until current one (a mate with financial troubles) can afford to move out. If he wasn't moving in, I would get another lodger and charge £450 a month. We will live in my house alone and once we know living together works, buy something together (tenants in common to protect my much higher equity).

I want him to pay £400 a month contribution essentially to replace the lost lodger income. This will cover all bills and then we will split food etc ad hoc (me probably paying more as I earn more). He saves an extra £450 a month compared to now which he can put toward his help to buy.

He feels it is unfair to ask him to pay toward my mortgage and should only pay half of the monthly utility bills (about £175) plus spilt food bills and housework etc. When we buy together, then he would contribute toward the mortgage. He doesn't want to feel like I am profiting off him or treating him like a lodger. Especially as I don't 'need' the money with my payrise and earn more than him.

YANBU - He should pay £400
YABU - he should pay less

I won’t live together before marriage for exactly this reason unless we were both renting and splitting that equally

I'm in very similar position, except my lodger pays market value all in (£950 - London).

DP moves in next week as lodger is leaving tomorrow. He's paying me full market value for the time being and we will reassess in 6 months. He doesn't want to see me out of pocket so I'm having a few months to get my finances in order then we will split my mortgage, bills, service charge and he will probably give another £200 on top. It's way less than he would be paying for his own flat and was his suggestion - he doesn't want to live off me and sees us as a long term partnership.

I had £65,000 in equity I brought into my marriage and 17 years later ex husband is trying to piss that away on lawyers bills and disposing of assets below market value. Mine seemed a nice man too, he’s thought nothing of asking a court to make his own child homeless. Be careful OP

So he thinks it's fair that you move in together and this makes you financially worse off (as getting less than you did a lodger being there with his proposal) and he is financially better off, as he will pay less than he does now. Na no way.

With the furniture he wants to move in: he is not a hoarder but his flat is unfurnished so he has his own bed, small sofa etc. He wants to keep much (not all) of it so if he does end up moving out again on his own, he doesn't have to start from scratch. I find this perfectly reasonable.

But it does beg the question, if he can protect himself from potential breakup, why can't I?

if you said ok, “I will provide the accommodation. If you provide half the utilities and half the food, food I’m contributing more. Shall we try to make this fair? Would this be a way of getting him to contribute the £400 in a different way?

My dh definitely has autistic tendencies and it is very difficult to manage. He is very rigid in his thinking and inflexible. If you present it like this, perhaps you can get to the point, where he agrees to pay all of the utilities, council tax and the majority of the food.

Exactly

You have a lodger, if HE doesn't want the lodger in YOUR house, he has to cover the cost of the loss, and pay what the lodger pays.

I think you should put the issue on hold for a while and revisit in a year.

I also think you should never marry. You are in a really strong financial position, and have significant assets which become half his on marriage.

If you don't want kids, no benefit to being married.

YANBU!!!!!! if he thinks that he can live ANYWHERE all in for less than 400 a month he is a stupid idiot.

This relationship is over purely because he has no brain.

Seriously dump this douche

He should pay half of everything you two are sharing IMO, if you lived in the same place.

@missinginactiongeorge, you plucked up the same as me.

OP, I don't think his use of "power" & "control" is healthy. You are both trusting each other by moving in. You could throw him out but equally he could just leave.

People who talk about power & control others have over them often are projecting.

I am not bothered about marriage tbh. I might do for tax reasons if we are together a long time. I think he would like to get married (he is pretty soppy) but wouldn't insist on it.

Thank fuck I was smart enough never to marry my XP. We were together 8 years and I got a resounding LTB from here that I took heed of. If anyone remembers - had a thread in relationships about him having no job (gaming 'business' that made no money), being a slob and one time having a scary tantrum and ripping large chunks of his hair out.

I like@Mummyoflittledragon's explanation, it's simple and clearly explain your financial reasoning.

If he still can't/won't understand your POV, I'd hold off on him moving in, tbh.

So he wants to move in, have the spare bedroom as well as sharing your room, and not pay any rent?

Would you accept that from anyone else?

I wouldn't live with him at all. I agree with you that it's good to get these talks out of the way, but purely because they show you who you're dealing with. You are in a much, much better financial position than he is and he resents you for that, wanting you to pay him (in effect since he's not paying lodging) to equalise that.

You know what, if you want to give away hundreds a month, there are tons of worthy causes you could donate to, rather than a wannabe cocklodger.

Spot on @glitterfarts.

He is in the wrong. What you intend to charge him is very reasonable, op. If you were not his girlfriend but just someone from whom he rented, he would consider himself well off to have such a place. I know this is a personal matter between the two of you but it might help if somebody else whom you both trust could help him see it from a different angle. He's probably blinkered because you are his girlfriend, however he is indirectly paying the mortgage of the person from whom he currently rents - renters generally do and think nothing of it.

You say your salary will increase to £2,600 per month, is that gross or net? Think twice about telling him your pay details in future, eg if you have a bonus: he doesn't have to know everything until the time comes for you to get a joint mortgage.

If he doesn't want to pay what you suggest he doesn't have to move in. You can stay as you are and advertise for another lodger.

Fucking hell

no bloody way! why should you be worse off financially because your boyfriend moved in!

I'd ask for half the mortgage and half the bills! he will still be paying less than in his current rental! Otherwise just keep having lodgers and you'd be in a better position!!

He sounds horrible tbh!

I’ve not read the whole thread but I would suggest something like agreeing principles and timeframes, e.g. (1) as a principle, you shouldn’t be out of pocket because he moves in, not a lodger (2) as a principle, you both will want to try to save towards buying somewhere together if living together works out (3) as an amount, he should put at least “the money he saves” from moving in with you into a joint savings account (4) you should make a contribution from your income into that same account based on a fair % of your disposable income, whatever that is (5) he should make a further contribution based on a fair % of his residual disposable income (6) you agree a time frame to then reassess in eg 12 months (7) you agree how you would split the “savings pot” if it doesn’t work out - maybe equally, maybe not.

I can understand where is coming from but you are saving him a lot of money paying lodger rate which means he (plus you) save for bigger down payment on a better house in the future

He accuses you of wanting to profit from him, but actually he wants to profit from you. He’ll be much better off, you’ll be worse off.

If this point is this difficult, how will other things go? Will you forever just give in, as his thinking is “inflexible “ and it’s not worth the fuss?
Does his inflexibility go in your favour ever, or mostly just his?
I wouldn’t live with him.

ANd by the way, even if you’ve been lucky you don’t owe it to people to let them take advantage of you. You won’t solve inequity that way. Find a charity, help people, find a cause.

Financially, the best option for him is to buy the one bedroom flat and stop wasting money on rent, whether that is to a landlord or you. You lose nor gain anything. As a couple that doesn't make sense if you are planning to buy somewhere together in the near future because of the money you will lose in estate agent/legal fees and (possibly stamp duty).

The best option for you is to have him move in and pay rent instead of a lodger, you get to live with a partner rather than a lodger but still have the advantage of getting a large chunk of your mortgage paid off. You get all the benefits, he loses all the financial benefits of buying his own flat and all his security.

The "cost" of the mortgage to you is the interest element. You are getting something in return for the repayment part (ownership of the house). You could split the interest 50:50, along with bills and everything else. If he puts an equivalent amount to the repayment part of the mortgage into his ISA/savings you will both benefit from more money to put towards a house, especially with the 25% ISA bonus, and he is also gaining something for his money in the same way as he would if he bought his own flat.

Just a warning, too, you can waste all of your best years with a guy like this. Don't do it!

Dont pay anything towards a house you have no stake in.

Don't put yourself in a position where you are living in your boyfriends house, paying towards his mortgage, paying towards his bills and with no housing security for yourself. You would have more housing security renting from a private landlord. Just don't do it.

I think what makes the OP's situation different is whether or not she has a paying lodger. The boyfriend is asking to pay nothing, despite having a rood over his head and half a bedroom, plus the use of the third bedroom as storage. And I think if it was a woman asking about paying towards the mortgage as alive in partner, but was also saying that she wouldn't allow her partner to have a lodger either, she would also get a different response.

In the post quoted, the OP moving in doesn't cost the partner any more in terms of the mortgage, and if she contributes towards the bills he will still be better off. However the 'no lodger' condition means that OP here is worse off, by quite a bit. As she says, even the £400 she's charging her friend isn't market rate. So he's doing her out of that, and potentially even more if she were to get in someone she had no relationship with except that of lodger and landlady.

HollowTalk
That is a good point. Op has already done that once. Lol at your comment of donating to right causes!!