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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

What is fair financially?

402 replies

AmIbeingtoomean · 05/03/2020 10:34

NC as going to give lots of detail. Long sorry.

My boyfriend and I have been discussing moving in together but had a chat yesterday where he thinks I am asking too much. I have been in a cocklodger situation previously so worried I am being too harsh. Neither of us have children.

My situation:
I own a nice 3 bed house in a less nice area of an expensive (not London) city. My income is £2000 salary per month shortly rising to £2,600 following promotion. I have always had lodgers and my current one pays £400 a month all inclusive - slightly below market rent. My mortgage is £600 a month and all my household bills (including mortgage, excluding car and groceries) comes to £950 a month.

BF has a salary of £1,800 per month shortly rising to £1,900. He pays rent of £625 and his household bills total £850 each month. He has some money saved in a help to buy ISA and could right now buy a tiny flat in a similar area to me.

He doesn't want to move in while I have a lodger so will wait until current one (a mate with financial troubles) can afford to move out. If he wasn't moving in, I would get another lodger and charge £450 a month. We will live in my house alone and once we know living together works, buy something together (tenants in common to protect my much higher equity).

I want him to pay £400 a month contribution essentially to replace the lost lodger income. This will cover all bills and then we will split food etc ad hoc (me probably paying more as I earn more). He saves an extra £450 a month compared to now which he can put toward his help to buy.

He feels it is unfair to ask him to pay toward my mortgage and should only pay half of the monthly utility bills (about £175) plus spilt food bills and housework etc. When we buy together, then he would contribute toward the mortgage. He doesn't want to feel like I am profiting off him or treating him like a lodger. Especially as I don't 'need' the money with my payrise and earn more than him.

YANBU - He should pay £400
YABU - he should pay less

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 05/03/2020 22:17

I cannot understand why he thinks he should live rent free? That’s bonkers, he should not think that he can just live for free, that’s not how it works.

CalleighDoodle · 05/03/2020 22:18

He moves in but pays £450 towards utilities, pays half of food and does a fair share of housework.

However, this really makes me think youre either better off ending it, or just leave it as it is for now. I can see this from an emotional standpoint. I think I am bring practical whereas he is reacting more emotionally. He did say I had all the power and felt like I was very keen on being independent and maintaining control over my life
That has a red flag warning.

CalleighDoodle · 05/03/2020 22:19

@OneTimePrepper should she have added the previous lodgers to the title deeds too?

Tennisp · 05/03/2020 22:24

How dare he. Big red flag!

Original poster
AmIbeingtoomean · 05/03/2020 22:28

@OneTimePrepper would you say the same for his current landlord? He pays all bills there plus £625 rent for a one bed flat. If not, why not?

Does it make a difference that he wants my lodger to move out before he moves in, leaving me £400 down a month?

OP posts:
Original poster
AmIbeingtoomean · 05/03/2020 22:32

Regarding independence, I always felt MORE insecure over my XP's love for me since he was financially dependent on me. I would want any partner to be able to easily afford to leave because that means they are staying because they want to rather than have to.

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 05/03/2020 22:41

The thing is that there's wear and tear if someone lives in your house. If there was just the two of you, you are literally using everything twice as much - carpets, sofas, dishwasher, washing machine, shower etc. Why should he have that for nothing? You're not his mum!

81Byerley · 05/03/2020 22:53

Don't let him move in.

categoricallycrackers · 05/03/2020 22:58

This doesn't bode well. If he compartmentalises like this then any expense related to you will be yours even if he gets the benefit. It will be your car and your expense if he doesn't drive even if he gets great benefit from it. If you did have kids I reckon you'd be paying childcare 100%. Nightmare! This is an early warning of what's to come.

Noconceptofnormal · 05/03/2020 22:59

A pp had a good idea (sorry can't find it now) - your boyfriend should buy the 1 bedroom flat he can afford, then rent it out. The fair thing then to do would be to then split the rent that he makes from his btl (as he is living in OP's house for free) and then split the other household bills (apart from your mortgage) equally.

If you have a three bedroom house but don't want kids why do you need to buy a place jointly? If you don't want kids it's better to not migke your finances and not get married, and come up with a financial arrangement you're both happy with.

Original poster
AmIbeingtoomean · 05/03/2020 23:07

I would have suggested he buy a flat and rent it out if it wasn't for these factors that would, IMO, disadvantage him:

  1. You can't get the Help to Buy ISA bonus on a buy-to-let so he would lose that money.
  2. Rentals are a PITA regarding tax, management etc and can be a big risk if the tenant gets into arrears, refuses to leave on eviction etc.

I don't want him to lose out which is why I thought my offer was fair as it let him save lots extra. I am also a reasonable sort and if we split, would give him a month or so to find a new place unless I was at risk of violence etc (which I don't believe he is capable of).

OP posts:
Noconceptofnormal · 05/03/2020 23:20

On this OP:

1) You can't get the Help to Buy ISA bonus on a buy-to-let so he would lose that money.
2) Rentals are a PITA regarding tax, management etc and can be a big risk if the tenant gets into arrears, refuses to leave on eviction etc.

1 - check this with an IFA, it may be possible to buy the flat then get permission to let or convert it to a btl mortgage. I'm too old to have benefitted from the help to buy isa so I don't know.

2 - I'm a btl landlord with a few properties, honestly a one bedroom flat is really not a lot of work! Get it managed by an agent if concerned about hassle.

FanSpamTastic · 05/03/2020 23:28

He will be better off - even if he pays you the £400 lodger rate - why should you be worse off? The fact that he thinks he is being reasonable would set off alarm bells for me.

UYScuti · 05/03/2020 23:38

Thing is he's asking to move on to your territory he should respect the fact that it's your territory and be polite, go by your rules etc ...so you've told him what your terms and conditions are and instead of accepting that he tried to negotiate you down and get a better deal for himself.
Also, this getting rid of the lodger thing, it's to do with being the alpha male isn't it, he's getting rid of any potential rivals so that he can be the person in control, he WILL NOT tolerate the presence of another adult male on his territory.
It's all rather primal he already considers your house to be his territory you wait he'll soon be referring to it as 'my house'
it's just not looking good is it, he's immediately on the attack, trying to take more ground, claim territory for himself. And that's when he's on his best behaviour, what's it going to be like when he starts to relax and the mask starts slipping 😲

UYScuti · 05/03/2020 23:43

Furthermore he's very keen that you shouldn't profit from him in anyway, what he means, the subtext here, is he feels entitled to be the one who profits from you
and let's l👀k at it in the cold light of Day, which of you will be benefiting the most from this 'partnership' this collaboration?

billy1966 · 05/03/2020 23:50

OP, you sound like a very nice woman.
Perhaps too nice.
I think your boundaries need working on.

Red flags for him:

He resents your house and independence.
He wants your lodger out.
He wants you not to in any way benefit from him living with you.
He wants you to subsidise him.
He wants to protect himself and use the lodgers room for his furniture.
He resents you wanting to not lose out by moving in.
His ASD is an excuse for him?
But you having a practical head is a negative for you.

I think he is definitely a cocklodger.
I think he is extremely entitled.
I think he is extremely focused on paying as little as possible when he moves in.
I think he thinks he can wear you down and brow beat you into doing what he wants.

I would NOT be moving in with him.

I think he is far, far cuter than you give him credit for.
He does NOT have your best interests at heart.

No wonder he wants to move in quickly.

I wouldn't trust him.
I think you are getting a peak at who he really is.

That's tight and selfish.

I think you would be well advised to delay any decision for the foreseeable future.

I think you can do so much better.
You deserve to.
Flowers

UYScuti · 05/03/2020 23:55

Basically if he moves in with you you you lose out to the tune of 900 quid a month, and he expects you to be grateful??
he expects you smile cheerfully while you take an 11 grand a year sized hit for him😲
would he like you to stick a broom up your ass and sweep the floor while you're at it?

ArriettyJones · 05/03/2020 23:58

What you’re proposing to charge is more than reasonable.

However, If he was my son/brother/friend I would be worried that he’s missing his chance to jump in the housing ladder, however modestly.

Derbee · 06/03/2020 00:00

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t need a BTL mortgage if he bought a small flat. Most lenders, in my experience let you have 2 years consent to let.

Theowbh · 06/03/2020 00:00

Why does he think he can live there rent free????

TheHagOnTheHill · 06/03/2020 00:10

Why not charge him half the bills,half for food(though the average man usually eats more) and charge £225 room rental for the room he intends to use for storage.

nimsem2 · 06/03/2020 00:18

I would ask for £500 a month to include everything, even food. He's still going to be better off. Tell him take it or leave it.

UYScuti · 06/03/2020 00:57

I wouldn't let him move in without a legal agreement from him such that he never has any claim on the property

youknowitmakessensedunnit · 06/03/2020 01:02

Nothing to do with the thread but UYScuti is my son's favourite star lol

The4thSandersonSister · 06/03/2020 01:37

OP What is he like at housework, and how much of wanting to learn to drive is simply talk rather than an actual goal. You don't want to end up down a lodger income, your spare room masquerading as his storage lock-up, becoming his permanent Uber AND doing all the housework.

In your position I would continue as you are until you both feel like buying a joint property.