To demand consequences for this child?

[Grobagsforever]

Would appreciate some views here, will try and stick to objective facts.

DD, aged 9 has had on and off issues with a boy in her class. It started with low level name calling which I'm prepared to ignore, they are kids.

It has escalated to serious verbal abuse and violence. Over the last few weeks she has had her foot stamped on, been pushed, been wacked in the chest by his bag and yesterday 'kicked between the legs'. This is addition to similar incidents last year, the attacks went quiet for winter term. Note, this is affecting DD's school work.

In the last week this boy has also bitten another girl and knee-ed her in the stomach. I have spoken with this poor girl's parents to verify this. We are certain the girls are being truthful.

None of these assaults are reported to us, the parents. The schools method of dealing with it seems to be to send the boy for walks to 'cool off'. Worse, they minimise his behaviour, telling DD 'well at least it wasn't as bad as last time'.

It seemed DD and other girls are simply expected to absorb this boy's violent behaviour as the school cannot deal with him. I feel his behaviour should result in a temporary exclusion. He shows a worrying trend of violence against girls (there are other examples with different girls) and defends himself by saying 'she wound me up' - which sounds like one of the DV posts on here!

Additionally this boy has threatened to 'kill' my daughter at a shared activity this week, thankfully the instructor for this activity is taking the threat seriously (I don't think he is actually going to seriously harm her but that is not the point) and will exclude the child from the activity until the matter is dealt with.

I have previously trying dealing direct with him mum. There some mitigating circumstances for his behaviour but I feel mum is also minimising his behaviour and that I've exhausted that route.

I plan the contact the Head tomorrow and explain I expect consequences and a review of how the school has minimised the behaviour, not reported the assaults and generally failed in their safeguarding.

Am I over reacting? I plan to escalate and keep escalating until this matter has been dealt with,

and can I just say, not all schools put up with this, many go out of their way to work with and contain extremely difficult children with massive behaviour problems.

But often the school's hands are tied. They are forced to accept kids with multiple difficult needs without extra money or support. When schools are wondering how to find the money to pay enough teachers for each class, they don't have spare cash to have a TA giving 1:1 support to an aggressive child in the playground.
In the past, a school may have had a TA (for example) who had a role specifically to target children who come in to school angry/upset/without breakfast, and take them to one side for a while and give them some time and help (and food) before they go into the classroom. Many of those kids may come in having witnessed crap at home, or having had no sleep, and little food. Those TAs don't exist any more.

Schools are penalised if they exclude children, and for a child who is permanently excluded, there are often no places for them to go to.

This is a direct result of the cuts to education, but the general public just think teachers are swaning off on long holidays and don't fight against the cuts.

Then we expect the schools to do miracles with troubled and aggressive kids, with no resources.

That wouldn't stop me doing all the things I said above to safeguard my own child, but there is a fair amount of school bashing on thie thread.

"I would also refer to the kick between the legs as a sexual assault.."

It isn't - in the same way that a boy being kicked in the balls isn't sexual assualt. Saying things are a sexual assualt when they aren't, won't sort this out.

Re the questions on this boys mitigating circumstances. Obviously OP knows his background and won't elaborate here. Just wanted to highlight that kids who have been adopted are dealing with all kinds of trauma. It's not unusual for boys to lash out at girls if their abuser was female, or if they witnessed domestic violence. This level of trauma is extremely complex and the child is a victim that needs help.

It does not excuse his actions and OP needs to ensure her DD is safe. But understanding the full picture within this context may explain why a teacher might mistakenly minimise the situation. They'll be very supportive of any adopted child and doing what they can to help them overcome their difficulties.

This is absolutely dreadful.

There seems a hideous irony that -despite all the so called safeguarding policies and training - so many children are subjected to this kind of, well abuse frankly.
This isn’t character building, this is the school being both hamstrung by the plethora of policies and obligations and I think a genuine fear of coming down too hard on children that have extenuating circumstances of their own but are still bullies.

That is not good enough. The school absolutely has to safeguard your daughter and ensure her academic and emotional learning as well as happiness are not destroyed by a damaged child.

Safeguarding also absolutely exists to protect children with no issues of their own who are targeted by children who do. BOTH need intervention.

I would not accept anything other than decisive action that immediately and consistently reassured me or I would take matters further.

You're not over reacting at all. My ds has sen, and I will not tolerate him upsetting other children at school. I was called to a meeting last year with the Head, and the father of a little girl. The dc were 7 years old at the time. The head called me to say that my ds had been "pestering" the little girl. My ds has dyspraxia and learning difficulties, which means that he presents as a much younger child. He gets flappy with his hands, and is not aware where his body ends and the world begins.

Obviously, the other parent was unaware of any of this, and just saw his little girl upset because my ds kept pestering her.

Any way, we were all in to see the head, and I completely understood where the other parent was coming from, and agreed that the behaviour was not acceptable. The children were then brought in, and my ds apologised to her. We had a chat about keeping ours hands to ourselves, and the children went back to class happy, and the little girl felt that she had been listened to and her concerns taken seriously by the adults around her.

We haven't had any problems since.

I thought that this was the best way to deal with the situation.

The school should be contacting you when incidents happen, otherwise it's like the girls aren't being listened to and it's all just swept under the carpet to carry on.

Please do something serious about this OP. This happened with my cousin at school last year. A girl did all this to him and threatened to stab him - which she followed through with!! Then got released and then went to the fair a few weeks after with a list of people to kill and a kitchen knife in her pocket. Thankfully dc is fine but now suffers with visual stress and ptsd - he’s only 15.

Good god call the police. Your DD has been assaulted. Fuck the school or local authority deal with them afterwards.

Teach that bastard a lesson. Call the police and push for prosecution.

Of course your daughter should be safe at school and that is not happening at present. Your response has been totally proportionate and reasonable. Certainly the next step should be the Head.

Sadly your daughter's experience will be mirrored in hundreds of schools at present. I don't believe it is the schools at fault necessarily. Their hands are tied. There are very few avenues open to them to deal with these type of scenarios. The results of the Tory years are playing out in society - huge backlog of referrals for children with emotional difficulties, budget cuts at schools so there are far fewer teaching assistants who support the teacher in class and help these children. We all know the reasons why schools are overwhelmed but obviously that isn't helping your dear daughter. Start with the Head, but be prepared to escalate to LEA if necessary.

Teach that bastard a lesson. Call the police and push for prosecution

Please tell me you're not serious.

Sorry I’ve not read the full thread.

1. Report the kick between the legs to the police get a reference number.
2. Send an email to the head with details of all assaults and details of the level of bullying Cc in the school governors. Include the police reference number in your email.
3. Contact your council and ask to speak to MASH explain that your school has failed to safeguard your child they will investigate.

If the school cannot cope with or manage this child's behaviour, I would remove mine from the school. Then I would seriously pursue the matter, once they were no longer being assaulted on a daily basis.

I think we all agree that there are some monumental failings going on in the education system as a whole right now. It always comes down to funding and resources, or a lack thereof.

OP the only thing you can control at the moment is whether your child continues to be in the same environment as this boy. Therefore I would start to look at alternative options for your daughter ASAP. I could not continue to send my child to a school where they were effectively being terrorised.

Their hands are tied. There are very few avenues open to them to deal with these type of scenarios. The results of the Tory years are playing out in society

Utter bollocks. A failure of a school to address child who is bullying has fuck all to do with who is in political power. It has to do with the school’s failure to address bullying. That has been happening for decades regardless of who runs the country. It’s a convenient excuse to blame funding.

Kicking anyone between the legs is a very violent deliberate action.
It's purpose is to hurt and to humiliate.

This has been going on for some time.

I really pity children who have this type of appalling behaviour minimised and dismissed by their parents.

The bar is so very low in how some women accept being treated....it's very sad that it can extend to how they accept their children being treated.

Lots of schools would not put up with a single incident of this kind...not to mind it going on for months on and off.

Exactly what type of message is being sent to girls when those around them think this is acceptable.

I believe it's less likely to happen in schools where parents would not tolerate it for a minute.

I know the schools that my children attended where low level bullying was ruthlessly dealt with by the school management, because it was policy to take it every single incident very seriously.

Both parents had to present themselves if they were called about an incident, meet the Head, take their child home and agree behaviours before their child was allowed to return.

This simple act meant that parents were hugely inconvenienced during their working day.

It focusesd minds, because the Principal was extremely tough and uncompromising in his dealings with bullying from the smallest incidents in reception class.

Before children started at school parents were briefed clearly that any incident of bullying would be treated very seriously.

Parents cannot pretend they are not aware of the consequences of this behaviour from their child.
It will be challenged by the school and dealt with.

Pastoral care is as critical as a childs education in any school.

Personally I think that children who show hostility to other children in any way, shape or forms should be made to know, in no uncertain terms, that their behaviour is wrong, bad and unacceptable.

Unhelpful to ignore the different issues around violence with men and women. As fashionable as it may be to insist that’s equality, it isn’t.

The bar is so very low in how some women accept being treated....it's very sad that it can extend to how they accept their children being treated.

Who is accepting how the DD is being treated?

Unhelpful to ignore the different issues around violence with men and women.

Unhelpful to ignore violence in girls because they are girls. everyone needs to know violence is unacceptable regardless of whether they have a penis. It's stupid to think otherwise.

"Both parents had to present themselves if they were called about an incident, meet the Head, take their child home and agree behaviours before their child was allowed to return."

Yes schools can give fixed term exclusions if an incident is serious enough and ultimately permanently exclude but they can't insist both parents present themselves neither can they insist the child stays home until... I wish people would stop giving incorrect information.

Unhelpful to ignore violence in girls because they are girls. everyone needs to know violence is unacceptable regardless of whether they have a penis. It's stupid to think otherwise.

Nobody suggests you should, where did I say that you should?

But we get it, you’re all about the equality so once again the specific issues around the way girls are expected to behave and what they are expected to put up with can be swept under the carpet because we must remember “what about the poor menz, they are victims too”

These threads really annoy me. Is nobody worried what this child may be witnessing at home? He could be witnessing domestic violence or even have it happening to him. This is why cases get missed. It's ok calling him a little bastard but it's obvious he needs help. OP is doing the right thing in speaking to the head. She needs to know her child will be safeguarded at school.

It wasn't "exclusion" it was just making it very clear to the parents that you must make it clear to your child that this is unacceptable before they come into school tomorrow.

I never heard of any child being excluded.
I did hear of parents being called in and things being spelt out to them.

A zero tolerance policy from the early years prevents most of this type of behaviour.

Ignoring it, facilitates it being repeated and its escalation.

The OP said there have been several
assaults on her daughter and other girls.

The reads to me as the issue being ignored by both teachers and parents.

Those children have a right to be safe from assault during their school day.

That's a very low bar to have for a school day to have.

All you can demand is that they tell you the steps they are taking to safeguard your child.
you have no say nor entitled to any information about how they are handling the boy, that is non of your business.
If you aren't satisfied with their answer you need to take it further, telling the head that you are because they are failing in their duty to keep your child safe.

If a parent is called into school and told to take the child home it is an exclusion. It needs to done as an exclusion complete with paperwork and being reported to the local authority. If this isn't done the school has broken the law and could end up in trouble for this.

billy1966
not all parents will turn up, and believe me, heads do try, but you can call 500 times and the parent won't come. Or, they answer and when you tell them it is a behaviour issue, they don't come.

Then there are the parents who come, but then scream and shout either at the head, or at the other parent, or at the other child.

then there are the parents who come, you tell them their child has hit another child and they flat out refuse to beleive their little darling did anything, even after being given evidence.

Then there are the parents who take their child home and beat the shit out of them becuase they got called up to school.

And it is ILLEGAL for the school to tell them to take the child home for the rest of the day. That is officially a fixed term exclusion, must be registered as such and must be formally informed to parents by letter etc etc.

I agree that schools need to take a firm line, and a zero tolerance for bullying/violence does work, but only up to a point. Sadly some parents are as violent as their kids, and no, social services doesn't remove them form the home.

Unlawful exclusions don't help because they hide the fact that there are problems so prevent a child getting the support they need ( and so not stopping the difficulties created for other children in the class).

Thank you everyone for your largely very useful advice.

I called the school and was put straight through to the head. We spoke, she went away and spoke teachers and both children.

She called me back. It seems she was entirely unaware of the situation. The class teacher has not been discussing it with her. She does appear to be taking it extremely seriously and has outlined a clear plan with herself in charge should any future incidents occur. I feel satisfied that she means it and she did sound genuinely shocked.

If incidents re-occur I will follow advice upthread and keep DD home if only to make a point and notify the controlling trust (it's not under LEA control) as to what I am doing.

I will speak to my daughter later and get her views as to conversation and outcomes. If she feels sufficiently reassured then it will be a case of watching and monitoring very closely.