Son & wife's attitude issues

[doyafeellucky]

Sorry, this has turned into a longer post than intended but even then, I cannot describe all the situations and my frustrations.

Ive always been one to think I can work out problems but Im at my wits ends now. My wife and I both love our adult son who is now in his early 30's. Before our son and now wife were engaged and married, we thought we had made her feel welcome in both our home and family.

At first things seemed good. We have no problem with our son living a full independent life but, a number of things have hurt me. Im growing tired of the disregard being displayed by our son towards us and I feel we are being made into second choices. I dont expect our son to put us on a pedestal but think he and his wife should be sharing occasions more between the families rather than seeming to prioritise the others.

Prior to their marriage, I was shocked when we were told his future mother in law was organising a birthday bash for our son and would we like to come along? It was almost an after thought but hindsight suggests it was a hint of what was to come.

As most parents do nowadays, Bank of Mum & Dad, both us and our son's future mother in law helped them buy their first home. I didnt know at the time but her mother and partner were invited to house welcoming meal. We got no such invite which I find upsetting to say the least.

With initial income being tight, we asked if they'd like to come for tea, nothing special, once a month and they agreed. Everything was fine for the first 5 or 6 months. After one meal where my wife had spent time preparing, our son's fiancee decided she wanted to leave straight after the meal. I suggested my wife wanted some time to talk with them as she'd been preparing the meal and just upping and leaving was a bit unfair on her. Apparently that didnt bode well.

Later, we learnt my son's then fiancee started saying we were 'too formal,' whatever that means. Next our son says his fiancee didnt like coming to our home which meant they started visiting us less. When they visit together, they are always on their way out somewhere else or are coming back so they cannot stay long.

I have noticed she is always looking for an excuse to leave as soon as she arrives no matter how much effort we make to talk. She's more interested in her phone and What's App. But I come in useful at times for her being asked to take her to the nearest railway station from time to time.

Now, the last couple of times they have popped around, she has started staying outside in the car, again, meaning we dont get to see our son for long.

The actual wedding was something else, Our family was made to feel like it was there to make up the numbers. Unknown to us at the time, numerous official pictures of the bride and groom with all her family were taken. Despite members of our extended family being present we got 2 official pictures of my wife, our other son and myself with them. Even then, we were an after thought at seeing and being able to order the official pictures and given just 1 week before orders were no longer being taken. That hurt me enormously, goodness knows how my wife felt.

I later found out that during the evening reception when my wife welcomed our daughter in law into the family, she said our family name was 'sh*t' and she didnt intend using it although she does do so in all letters etc. I would probably have made a scene if my wife had told me this at the time.

It's the same at special occasions. 2 out of the last 3 Christmases, we have had to decamp to her mother's home because 'she always spends Christmas at her mother's and couldnt give a sh*t whether her now husband is with her or not.' Those are her words. We invited her family to ours in return for the first Christmas and would be happy to do so again but their plans are already made etc, etc so sorry we cannot make it.

Both my wife's and my birthday are near Christmas. Im not too bothered about celebrating my birthdays anymore. My wife and I had discussed it and decided to mark her birthday with some informal pub grub. But my son then says his wife doesnt like 'pub grub' which is strange because the last Christmas meal was at a pub! So we ended up having a restaurant meal which was nearer my birthday and not my wife's as I wanted.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.'

If these events were being held at my son and his wife's home, Id have no problem with this but every special occasion has to be at her mother's home, venue of choice or involvement. We dont even get the opportunity to ask would you like to go out for Mother's Day, anniversay etc.

I find myself hoping my son and wife do not have any children, I am convinced we would never see them while they'll spend all the time at her mother's.

Im at the point now where I consider I need to make my feelings clear to our son. If he wants to consider us as second choice parents, Im not inclined to make him first choice inheritance.

My wife seems prepared to put up with this while Im not as I think it's only going to get worse and we continue to be pushed aside. I really dont know how to broach the subject with my son. I find it hard to believe he doesnt see what is happening here because there are lots of other things going on that I havent covered.

Basically, how should I approach this? Thank you for reading and any input.

I so feel for you op

Not just your awful, rude DIL but the roasting you've had on here. (Post in Relationships next time, AIBU can be vicious, as you have seen.)

Joshua Coleman deals with this subject. He predominantly deals with estrangement but this scenario is common in the leadup to estrangement. Do give him a read. You'll get some very good tips on how to approach this without making things worse.

I get why you mentioned the inheritance: your tremendous hurt. You made the mistake of posting that comment on MN AIBU so you'd get a roasting for just that.

Brilliant advice from emptywallet. You've also had some valuable insight into how your son and DIL's generation view family relationships, uncomfortable though it is to read. Some great advice on here too.

I wish you and your wife the very very best in this very painful situation.

OP I am so sorry that you are getting such a hard time from some of the posters. It seems many are angry with some aspect of their own lives and are taking it out on you!

Your DIL sounds a very unpleasant person, and as she seems no more inclined to treat you and your wife with respect now than she did before they married I would be inclined not to bother trying to win her over. I wasn't particularly close to my in-laws, but I certainly would never have treated them any differently to my own family when it came to special occasions or visits. For her to sit outside in the car when your son visits is just downright ignorant.

I don't have any advice, but wanted to let you know that there are those of us who can understand your problem. All you can hope is that at some stage your son may come to his senses and realise what sort of person he has married.

I also agree with the poster who pointed out that an inheritance is not a right.

Just to give a ray of hope, the situation in my family (which sounds almost identical to yours) got worse before it got better, but it did get better.

The behaviour of the person in question became worse over the years. Towards the end she never came to any family events, for our side of the family at all. The husband started to wake up though and recognise the toxic behaviour for what it was. He now has a great relationship with his parents, who never cut him off. They were incredibly hurt but always open to see him during those years.

I really hope it works out for you, you may sadly though have to play the long game.

Dear OP,
Unfortunately your DIL doesn't like your family, you can't make her..it might have nothing to do with your behaviour. You were welcoming and polite to her and I don't think you should do anything else.
I would recommend giving up demands on Christmases as such.
Take your son out for a drink, tell him you miss him. Tell him you understand his wife likes different things in life and you appreciate how it might be difficult to juggle various family priorities for your son.
Suggest to your son to come over once a month or so by himself (his wife is welcome to join but she doesn't need to feel pressured to do so). Under no circumstances threaten your son with inheritance, it looks bad and will cause long term damage to your relationship.
Leave it to him to decide how he wants to proceed.
If he fails to visit, treat you disrespectfuly and you are sure there was nothing sinister in his childhood by all means leave your money to charity, but don't make threats. You don't want him to spend time with you just because he wants money from you
Good luck and ignore some comments here, mumsnet is full of bitter people projecting their own problems with In laws to every situation

It sounds a horrible situation for you and your wife. However, I think if you continue as you are, you will continue to get the same outcome. From what I read, you want them to change yet only person you can change is yourself. Expecting others to change will only ever come over as controlling and they are increasingly pushing against that by pulling away.

What has happened has happened and what was said has been said. You cannot change this so time to let it go. To this end, the anger and hurt that you are oozing needs an outlet. Right now, that is being aimed at your dil. Time to redeploy it and see what you can do to 1) reframe your hurt and 2) look at how you can change to be warm and welcoming parents they will thaw toward.

Using the example of Mother’s Day. Have you responded? If not, I would suggest a response along the lines of “Ah that’s lovely, we hope (dil mother’s name) has a fab time. It would be great if you could come after. I’m / mum is baking (ds’s favourite) cake. We’re looking forward to seeing you both. Much love mum and dad xx”

My take is that instead of looking at what you don’t have, look at what you do have. Being generous with others comes in various forms and it doesn’t sound like you’re being generous in the right way to tempt them to come toward you. Your reaction has been to pull away, get hurt and contemplate revenge. This is the absolute opposite of what is required.

You may think you’re very laid back. And you could be very laid back in your own way yet still show a lot of rigidity and formality in others. One thing for sure is that your thinking right now is very rigid. That’s a perfectly natural human reaction and a protection mechanism. But it’s not going to get you what you want. And sadly the more rigid people become in their behaviour and / or thinking, the more it becomes fixed in later life. So if you want things to change, you will need to act now.

And please stop calling people trolls and ignoring their posts. They actually could tell you a lot about what’s going on with your ds and ddil. So if instead of rejecting the posts, allow yourself to read and process them. Perhaps if you did, you would be a step closer to fixing things.

Your DIL is firmly in the driving seat and you either go her way or get out. Your son will always choose her as he loves her and is not a child so doesn't need parents. That doesn't mean he shouldn't WANT to see you and I would keep an open door for both of them but let him know that, if she is busy, you'd be ok if it's just him. You'll need to let go of special days (even though it hurts) and try to accept it for what it is. I don't think you're hard work but I do think you could change your expectations and try to accept what's offered. My friend never approved of her DS's wife and made her feelings clear. DIL 'moved' the family 200 miles away and when 1st DGS was born, my friend didn't know for 3 months that she'd even been pregnant and only saw child once a year in a coffee shop! Tread carefully, meet up with your son informally sometimes, and good luck.

I've not read all the replies here...

OP I'm sorry to be blunt but have you thought that perhaps your son isn't being controlled by his wife and he genuinely enjoys spending time with his in-laws more?
This is the case with my DH, the relationship he had with his parents growing up was very different to mine with my dad who was a single parent and I think because my DH saw a different child/parent relationship and different close family dynamic he loves that and would chose to spend time with my family over his own.

Threatening to take him out of any inheritance is utterly ridiculous... I'm sure that will really bring you closer. Why is that one of the first things you'd suggest? I'd work on trying to forge a relationship with your son, can you suggest you go out together to a sports event etc?

We go where we are loved, valued and happy. If your son felt this unconditionally I think you would see more of him

This is extremely sensible advice.
You seem rather fixated on getting your "turn" rather than building a relationship.

The inheritance remark is very controlling and manipulative, its the classic "do as I want or ..."
Start by apologising for that and suggesting a lunch out but with no pressure going forward.

Too many formalities.

Quick my family were nothing but welcoming to my sister in law. She was and probably still is, just a toxic person. It happens.

I disagree with most, I don't think OP sounds uptisht, formal, full on or hard work at all. On the contrary, I think the daughter-in-law sounds rude, selfish and aggressive.

There's nothing wrong with parents expecting to not only have a relationship with their child, but also with their partner. Who brings children into this world with the idea that, one day, the child will cut contact to them? I would be really hurt, too, in OP's shoes.

Funny how people think it's unreasonable for OP to disinherit his son all while blaming him for being traditional. Inheritance is a traditional custom. So as long as something is about money, it's okay to be traditional, but otherwise it's not?

OP, I totally understand where you and your wife are coming from, and I don't think you're the ones in the wrong. The only wrongs you have done is to give your son money for his house, and to not talk to your son upfront about how hurt you are. I would definitely have that conversation with him.

Also, maybe get it out of your head that you're ever going to have a relationship with your daughter-in-law. Just focus on your son. Tell him that you'd like to spend more time with him, even if it is without his wife. If he doesn't care, I would disinherit him and keep my distance from him until he's ready himself to make an effort. I would also ask him for the money back that you put into his house. Why should you help him put a roof over his wife's head when she can't even bear to be around you? Ask for the money back, and go somewhere nice with your wife.

I don’t see my family a lot anymore. When I took my OH round to my grandparents (They raised me so were like parents) and uncle, aunty, cousins etc they were horrible, overbearing, asking too many questions, prying about his life A LOT and basically being very irritating and over the top.
I went to have a calm discussion with them about how they acted and how it made me feel (Embarrassed, upset) and they point blank refused to accept they had done anything. They told me I’m silly and it’s all in my head and how I feel is ridiculous. This was an awful thing to hear from people who had raised me. A part of me thinks although they (And you) say there ok with their adult children “Living a fully independent life” they simply aren’t and this come across in their attitudes.
I wonder what this situation would read like if your son or DIL posted their side because if my family posted their version of our life I’m sure they’d make me and OH look awful by saying we never visit etc when the truth is that they have caused it!
They made threats about money etc and to be honest it made me dislike them even more as family shouldn’t be about that, it should be about being supportive and loving.

I don’t think you sound too intense or formal, OP. I think your DIL sounds very immature.

It’s incredibly rude of her to sit in the car when they visit you. The fact she seems to be round her mothers’ so much is pathetic in a grown adult, IMO. Her comments about not liking ‘pub grub’ when she clearly does, are either immature attention-seeking or an attempt to ruin the occasion by making you move the venue/date. She sounds horrible. My ex-SIL was like that - rude and cruel.

You need to get an opportunity to speak to your son in person and alone. Be very careful not to criticise his wife because that might make him defensive. Concentrate on describing your feelings calmly and give examples. Do NOT mention the inheritance!

Perhaps your son is like my brother. He did everything to keep the peace and please his wife. In the end, it was all pointless as nothing was enough attention for her and she left him for a string of men.

But do also speak to your son about whether you are ‘formal’. Try to find out what complaints your DIL has made and look at them objectively.

Tread softly - and good luck.

Oh god. I feel for you. But this resonates with me.

I actually adore my in-laws and we live a lot closer to them but I am an only and as a result spend more of the “special occasions” with my family which does make me feel awful. We have even said for Mother’s Day does my MIL want us to pop in before or after we visit my Mum 🤦‍♀️

Ive even joked that their surname, mine now, common and whinged that I can’t spell it when I’m in a rush 🤣😳 but now I can see that that might be hurtful.

This doesn’t help you but it’s given me food for thought. Perhaps if you tell your daughter in law (if you haven’t already) she might feel the same.

From what I can tell there hasn’t been any major arguments, abuse etc that can break a family so I’m sure it can be resolved. Best of luck! I’m off to text my MIL 🙂

"I bet she loves waiting for the monthly forced meal to roll around you are far too formal and uptight!"

Once a month? It's hardly a death sentence, is it?

I'm amazed at some of the horrible posts here. As a child, my parents always gave both sides of the family equal time, even though my dad got along better with his in laws than his own parents. DH and I do the same with our families and I would never dream of having a special occasion for DS and not inviting my in laws.

The inheritance thing is a bit OTT. I know you said you hope they won't have children because you'd never see them but you may find the opposite if they do, especially if they need childcare. I think all you can do is continue to be as welcoming as possible. As others have said, if you push your son, he will choose his wife.

If you want to "disinherit them" then go ahead. Most people don't disclose what is in their will anyway so they wont know until you are dead.

Of course if you are planning to tell your son beforehand then say goodbye to amy chance of a relationship

I bet you have made all kinds of snidey boorish comments to her and that's why she sits in the car. You don't sound very self aware at all! Threatening to make a scene at their wedding.

Saying that you hope they don't have children as she (quite normally) prefers to spend time with her own mother.

You are definitely the problem in this relationship. Not that you'll listen to that. I wouldn't want to spend time with you either.

Op you are NOT the problem in this relationship.

I don't think it's fair to suggest that people saying you are "controlling" or "too formal" are necessarily trolling. Most of them are simply stating what they feel from the tone of this and precious threads.

I certainly am not a troll, and will try to word it in a way that doesn't come across as goading or unnecessarily cruel or hurtful in a situation that is clearly very upsetting for you. But the truth of the matter is, for whatever reason, your DIL does not enjoy your company / does think you're too formal (regardless of whether you agree or not) and chooses to not spend much time with you. So you may not feel like you are too formal, but she clearly does.

She doesn't have a problem with her behaviour and is happy to continue the way she is. You are not. So in order for anything to change, unfortunately, you are the ones who are going to have to change.

I assume what has happened is that over time, having picked up on her disinterest in spending time with you, you have started to simply try too hard to be welcoming and to please her, and that's what's coming across as overly formal. She presumably doesn't feel relaxed in your company to word it that way, so you need to think about what you can do to remedy it and make her feel more relaxed in your company. I say this speaking from experience. I know for a fact that my PIL are anything but formal, but whenever my husband & I visit them, my MIL makes such a huge fuss that it just feels like so much pressure. She spends the entire time in the kitchen trying to make the perfect meal, and we then all sit down together with their finest wine glasses and talk about the weather. It feels so scripted. Whereas with my parents, we see them a lot more admittedly so whenever we are with them we all just sit around and chat and it just doesn't feel like so much effort. This all comes with time, it won't change overnight. But my advice - stop trying so hard. Don't stop trying to spend time with them, but when you do, try to let it come organically.

Would your wife consider asking DIL out for coffee or something similar just to try & spend a bit of time with her alone and see if they can form some sort of relationship independently of you and your son?

Best of luck. It's a tricky situation but it's not completely unfixable

Op, focus on your son, not your DIL. I found the detail about your wife preparing a meal and you being offended that your DIL left straight after quite telling.

Does your wife always do everything food related? Did you expect your DIL to be grateful to your wife for cooking the meal? Remember, she is there for your son, not for a free meal. Why did your wife spend all the time in the kitchen?

Next time get a takeaway. Your DIL may not be a fan of the dynamic between you and your wife. The situation above may have exemplified everything she dislikes about it.

Read up on 'Wife Work' and be prepared to change the way you do things. Again, focus on your son.

The DiL sounds very immature and passive aggressive - sitting in the car while the son goes in to visit. What a child.

In future invite them to birthday meals etc don't change your plans to suit her. If they come they come a d if they don't they don't

I don’t think you sound formal at all. But even if you were why are people jumping on that as a possible reason for your Dils behaviour. We come in all shapes and sizes. What a pathetic reason for being so nasty if that was the case. But just to reiterate what people have said.....You are definitely not the problem. It’s her.

I think it’s really sad that mothers always post how they would do anything for the DC, they love them so much etc but don’t seem to realise that their inlaws feel that way about their DH.

Short of genuinely abusive or nasty inlaws, there should be a reasonably fair split of special occasions and time spent.

In this case without GC Mother’s Day could either be done separately or lunch with one and dinner with the other.

I really hope reading this post makes most of us think about whether we actually treat both our own family and our inlaws fairly. My own MIL can be frustrating and set in her routine but she means well. I think I’m going to phone and ask if we can come for Xmas unless they would rather come here.

You so7 d like someone out of the 1950s, not sure I'd want to be in your company too much TBH.

And hoping your son and DIL don't have children is vile.