Son & wife's attitude issues

[doyafeellucky]

Sorry, this has turned into a longer post than intended but even then, I cannot describe all the situations and my frustrations.

Ive always been one to think I can work out problems but Im at my wits ends now. My wife and I both love our adult son who is now in his early 30's. Before our son and now wife were engaged and married, we thought we had made her feel welcome in both our home and family.

At first things seemed good. We have no problem with our son living a full independent life but, a number of things have hurt me. Im growing tired of the disregard being displayed by our son towards us and I feel we are being made into second choices. I dont expect our son to put us on a pedestal but think he and his wife should be sharing occasions more between the families rather than seeming to prioritise the others.

Prior to their marriage, I was shocked when we were told his future mother in law was organising a birthday bash for our son and would we like to come along? It was almost an after thought but hindsight suggests it was a hint of what was to come.

As most parents do nowadays, Bank of Mum & Dad, both us and our son's future mother in law helped them buy their first home. I didnt know at the time but her mother and partner were invited to house welcoming meal. We got no such invite which I find upsetting to say the least.

With initial income being tight, we asked if they'd like to come for tea, nothing special, once a month and they agreed. Everything was fine for the first 5 or 6 months. After one meal where my wife had spent time preparing, our son's fiancee decided she wanted to leave straight after the meal. I suggested my wife wanted some time to talk with them as she'd been preparing the meal and just upping and leaving was a bit unfair on her. Apparently that didnt bode well.

Later, we learnt my son's then fiancee started saying we were 'too formal,' whatever that means. Next our son says his fiancee didnt like coming to our home which meant they started visiting us less. When they visit together, they are always on their way out somewhere else or are coming back so they cannot stay long.

I have noticed she is always looking for an excuse to leave as soon as she arrives no matter how much effort we make to talk. She's more interested in her phone and What's App. But I come in useful at times for her being asked to take her to the nearest railway station from time to time.

Now, the last couple of times they have popped around, she has started staying outside in the car, again, meaning we dont get to see our son for long.

The actual wedding was something else, Our family was made to feel like it was there to make up the numbers. Unknown to us at the time, numerous official pictures of the bride and groom with all her family were taken. Despite members of our extended family being present we got 2 official pictures of my wife, our other son and myself with them. Even then, we were an after thought at seeing and being able to order the official pictures and given just 1 week before orders were no longer being taken. That hurt me enormously, goodness knows how my wife felt.

I later found out that during the evening reception when my wife welcomed our daughter in law into the family, she said our family name was 'sh*t' and she didnt intend using it although she does do so in all letters etc. I would probably have made a scene if my wife had told me this at the time.

It's the same at special occasions. 2 out of the last 3 Christmases, we have had to decamp to her mother's home because 'she always spends Christmas at her mother's and couldnt give a sh*t whether her now husband is with her or not.' Those are her words. We invited her family to ours in return for the first Christmas and would be happy to do so again but their plans are already made etc, etc so sorry we cannot make it.

Both my wife's and my birthday are near Christmas. Im not too bothered about celebrating my birthdays anymore. My wife and I had discussed it and decided to mark her birthday with some informal pub grub. But my son then says his wife doesnt like 'pub grub' which is strange because the last Christmas meal was at a pub! So we ended up having a restaurant meal which was nearer my birthday and not my wife's as I wanted.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.'

If these events were being held at my son and his wife's home, Id have no problem with this but every special occasion has to be at her mother's home, venue of choice or involvement. We dont even get the opportunity to ask would you like to go out for Mother's Day, anniversay etc.

I find myself hoping my son and wife do not have any children, I am convinced we would never see them while they'll spend all the time at her mother's.

Im at the point now where I consider I need to make my feelings clear to our son. If he wants to consider us as second choice parents, Im not inclined to make him first choice inheritance.

My wife seems prepared to put up with this while Im not as I think it's only going to get worse and we continue to be pushed aside. I really dont know how to broach the subject with my son. I find it hard to believe he doesnt see what is happening here because there are lots of other things going on that I havent covered.

Basically, how should I approach this? Thank you for reading and any input.

I think I can relate with your daughter in law if you want some perspective.

MIL and PIL are perfectly well meaning and on the face of it nice respectable people but also quite judgemental of others who don't fit their view of the world, not in a nasty way but in a way that makes me feel like I can't really relax around them.

They (MIL really) get very jealous of any time we spend with my family, to the extent that they turn up very early to any family events we or DH's siblings host, ostensibly to 'help out' but really it's about trying to prove they have the closest relationship to the hosts. Everything feels like a competition and MIL just oozes with desperation to be the alpha female in any situation. It's openly acknowledged between DH and his siblings that she needs to feel important and needed and they/we try and accommodate that but sometimes she can really overstep boundaries (ringing utilities on our behalf/ arranging children's birthday cakes without asking type stuff) and seems oblivious to it.

Then there is the formality. Everything is immaculate, the blinds just so, the ornaments carefully positioned and endless photos of DH and his siblings and grandchildren. They are only in their 60s but they act older than my grandparents in their late 80s. It's difficult to describe why it grates but you can't just pop round for a quick cuppa and a relaxed chat, it turns into a full afternoon tea with MIL fussing and endless stories about people I don't know and their minor ailments. I'm constantly worried about crumbs, spills.

I basically can't relax around them and although they haven't done anything you can put your finger on being massively wrong I don't enjoy spending time with them.

They also have a really boring surname (think Smith) and I've been used to having a pretty unique surname, which I have kept, but I know they find that bewildering.

Luckily for them I'm extremely polite. I try very successfully not to let my discomfort show and whilst I would dearly love to sit in the car on my phone while DH visits them I don't.

Your DIL is very rude, but perhaps try and look at why she might feel so uncomfortable around you and see if you can relax/ dial back a bit. She might have married your son but she doesn't see you as family, so treat her as you would any other acquaintance and carry on your relationship with your son as best you can.

I can feel the pain this is causing you :(

To me it sounds like your DIL and son prefer to spend time with her family. If not, he would visit you by himself.

It's probably worth speaking to him to find out if there's any way to work through it. Otherwise, take them up on the offer to go to your DIL parents' house instead.

I get it Op, I really do. I've had many, many years of this sort of thing in my family. Ultimately you have a DIL who wears the trousers in the relationship with your son and she is nasty and self centred enough to just do things on her own terms. I would guess she is a controller.

Yes try to speak gently to your son and try to organise some things that are more in tune with what your DIL might like. Ultimately, however, I am not optimistic about the future unless your DIL suddenly decides you could be useful to her and she may then change her tune. I'm really sorry Op. She sounds vile.

I love my son and have made sacrifices during my working life to give us all a better life. so, it hurts when I see what is happening now.
You made those scrifices of your own free will, and you simply can't now expect any return, whether it be his gratitude, or that he should feel under obligation in any way towards you. We all want to do the best we can to provide for our children, but once they have grown, we have to set them free.

both my wife and I just want to enjoy my son's life and future
That's just it though. It is his life, not yours. You and your wife can't live your lives through him. Nor can you expect him and his wife to live their lives according to your expectations, or in a way you always imagined they would be. They have their own lives to lead.

@doyafeelluckydoyafeellucky Sorry you’re feeling like this. It must be really upsetting for you to feel your son is abandoning you. I don’t know if it will help your situation but My in-laws definitely feel the way you do about me! So it might help hearing things from my point of view:

My in-laws in every fight have said since I came along their son has changed, but even his sisters and relatives have confirmed he’s always been distant with them even before he met me. I think the problem my in-laws have is that they always imagined his wife would have brought him closer to his parents. But how can I be responsible for making them get along when they never have!

Are you having unrealistic expectations of your son as a married couple? Maybe just try and work on your relationship first then work on your relationship with both of them as a couple.

My in-laws have over the past 10 years blamed so many things on me when in fact their son has had countless issues with them before he even knew me. His aunty even told me that she hated me at first as her sister (my MIL) told her that I’m trying to divide the family and put her son against the family, when in fact he didn’t want to spend time with them.

The woman always gets blamed for causing a rift in the family. My husband never gets any blame when I fall out with my parents! Families always fight but try to see things from a clear and truthful place. Be honest with yourself - was your relationship with your son really that good before DIL came along? If not then my advice would be try to get along with your son and find activities you both enjoy.

I call her my favourite DIL to which she says she's the only one. We cant win.

That’s a ridiculous comment. My mum said the same to my DD and even she, at ten years old, saw how ridiculous it was. It isn’t endearing, it’s twattish.

All I have pointed out is that at 'special occasions' there's no debate about who goes where and when.

You don’t think telling your adult son that he is making the wrong choices is controlling?

To the trolls, give it a rest and find something useful to do with your life for a change.

That’s not very laid back/horizontal now, is it? Anyone who disagrees with you is trolling?

Face it. No matter how welcoming you think you are, she doesn’t agree. She suffered sat through half a year of monthly dinners (at your behest - again telling him what he should do) and gave you the chance to be welcoming. If they’d had a whale of a time they’d still be coming around. They aren’t and nor do they break their backs to see you at other times. Why are you so certain that has absolutely nothing to do with your behaviour? Why isn’t your wife agreeing with you that this is a terrible state of affairs? Can she, perhaps, see the reason they don’t make an effort?

Nobody turns their back on an allegedly loving and close relationship just because their partner says so.

I dont think you sound hard work. You sound like a loving and kind father, your wife too. Your DIL sounds very rude and immature as others have said. To sit in her car outside is just breathtakingly rude.
I can think of two couples I know of who fit the sort of scenario you describe. It always seems to be the husband who ends up turning his back on his parents , not the daughter. I have a friend who has a son with a girlfriend like this. My friend is absolutely lovely, but a single parent on a limited income. Her son and his gf spend all their time with her parents and the gf treats her really rudely.

As others have advised, I would ask your son out for a drink on your own and talk to him about it. Be calm and tactful. Don’t talk about inheritance. Ask if there is anything you could do to make her feel more welcome.
You can’t force this. Ultimately you may have to accept the situation and try to fill the void with friends and other family members.
Your DIL sounds really not very nice.

See Harry and Meghan for a similar scenario.

I think if you discuss this with your son I would leave the in-laws out of it entirely. Try not to compare and count what they get vs. what you get. This is unlikely to be interpreted well. It comes across a bit petty and tit for tat.

I’d talk to your son on his own. Id start by asking if there is anything you can do to make DIL more comfortable. You may find there is some issue that he has never told you about that is causing her to not want to spend time with you. Try to keep an open mind and be prepared to change whatever he says she doesn’t like. I’d also mention to him that whilst you are more than willing to change these things he can always come on his own sometimes as you’d love to see more of him and maybe as you build a better relationship with DIL she can slowly come more as and when she feel ready. That may help to take the pressure off her too. Be careful this doesn’t come across as you saying you don’t want her to come with him though!

I think you will also have to accept that you can’t dictate to them how the relationship should work and when they should visit they also get to have a say in that.

One other thing you that should be considered but this is very hard to know for sure from the outside. he doesn’t visit you much, but is it because he doesn’t want to or because she is being controlling and trying to stop him. Those are 2 different issues. The latter would suggest an unhealthy relationship between your DS and DIL. I don’t know what you can do in this circumstance really. Other than being ready to support if it ever tips into an abusive dynamic.

I really feel for you, I would be devastated in your shoes.

Can you speak honestly to your son? Could you tell him that you can see his wife isn't comfortable around you, and that maybe you should meet up without her? It will mean that you miss the big occasions for a while, but you will be able to maintain contact with your son and it's vital that you don't lose that.

Try to meet up for coffee, or a drink in the evening sometimes. If you can fit in a few quick meetings a month that will be better than just one meal at your house, I think. Relationships aren't really founded on huge celebrations, they grow in the smaller, intimate moments. Maybe you will miss Mothers Day, but you could go somewhere the day before (and if they have their own children you will lose that anyway).

Maybe one day you will be able to win your DIL round, but for now she seems to have taken against you. The less drama there is, the better. It's really important that you don't criticise her or argue with or about her. And in the end, it doesn't matter so much if she doesn't love you, so long as your son does.

Your DIL sitting in the car refusing to come in sounds very rude.

This isn’t about her very obviously close relationship with her mother through.

It’s about your relationship with your son. It doesn’t sound like it was close before - I’m basing that on you having to set up a regular monthly dinner. That smacks of forcing his hand to spend time with you.

By contrast, my husband has two adult sons. He doesn’t have a set time to see them. They’re on the phone at least once a week, and there’s a family WhatsApp too (the 3 of them, their mother died). He’ll just say - I’m home alone next Tue - fancy dinner? And the older one will come over. The younger is at uni, so he likes to drive him back, and always makes a lunch or dinner of it. They’re all just really close!

It doesn’t sound like you are. That might not be because anyone has done anything wrong. Maybe you’re too formal. Maybe he’s too selfish. Or maybe, despite being family, that desire to spend time with you just isn’t there. That’s sad and hard - but it’s not your DIL’s fault, and comparing don’t help.

YANBU and you have done nothing wrong at all.

IME you're not going to change her behaviour towards you no matter how nice you are to her. She sounds an absolute piece of work tbh.

I could write a book about my adult DS and his partner's behaviour none of which was justified...she's just not a nice person with absolutely zero respect for me. I also was used as a taxi....
She even damaged my car(her fault) and refused to sort it on her insurance...so I had to pay through mine. When I asked about her paying for the car my DS told me that I needed to apologise for upsetting her!!...WTF
They emigrated a few years ago and tbh I don't miss either of them.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.

Oh, sorry son...we've made plans to spend the day with your brother, have a nice time though??? Fight fire with fire???

Seriously though, this is a little mean and you should be really cross with your son for pushing your wife to one side on Mother's Day! In your shoes I'd tell him not to bother at all, and I'd tell him why! Start disengaging from them both, be available when they pop in but just be breezy and don't take to heart anything. Make your own plans for special occasions and don't give him the chance to allow you to be second best, when he comes around to tell you he's going to try and squeeze you in and expect you to be grateful, just politely decline saying you have plans, again tell him why if he asks.

With your will, that's up to you! I think it's silly to go through all of that to change your will, only do that if something seriously goes south with your son, I'd concede that will only make things difficult for your other son in the event of your passing anyway.

Please stop blaming your daughter in law for this though, this is all of your son's doing! Your daughter in law is facilitating a relationship with her side of the family, your son should be doing that with you, he's not so he is at fault here

You need to speak to your son and tell him that what’s happening is upsetting you.
People are not trolls just because they disagree with you

@Pelicanpie

'See Harry and Megan for a similar scenario'

One of them are you? 🙄

God titchy you really do sound like a really unpleasant piece of work What has OP said that entitles you to talk to him like this. He has done nothing wrong apart from being a man
I'm going through similar problems with my son OP. DiL doesn't have any parents but my God is she demanding and hard work.
I've bent over backwards to please her in every possible way including offering a large sum of money as a deposit for their home putting myself in debt in the process.
I get nothing but criticism. My son was fine until he met her, now life is miserable.
I find I can do nothing, you cannot criticise a childs partner or they just cut you off.
I find the best thing to do is take a big step back and let them get on with it. Its really hard but there is nothing else you can do.
Eventually your son will come back but it will take time. That usually happens when they wake up to how unreasonable the other half is being.
I'm just watching and waiting right now from a distance.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.

But they are still visiting on Mother’s Day. It’s not like they’re ignoring you.

Stop blaming your daughter in law, your son is the problem. Go ask him why he can't be bothered to spend any time with you. I doubt they are joined at the hip 24 hours a day, he could easily visit by himself, blaming his wife for his lack of interest is stupid.
Also, have you ever thought that he might be the reason she doesn't like you? My ex used to tell me all about how awful and cruel his parents were (all lies, they were lovely) just so I wouldn't want to spend any time with them.

You sound like my in-laws, suffocating, interfering and entitled. Chill out and whatever you do don’t “have it out” with your son. Mine did with my husband and let’s just say it didn’t go how my father in law planned. My in laws have always had some weird difficulty accepting my husband is a married man in his 30s and not the 6 year old boy they could tell what to do. They expect him to be there on Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, their birthdays, Christmas, Easter, our children’s birthdays I could go on and on and on. It just gets too much.

Let your son live his life, he’s an adult and stop competing with her parents.

It is normal for DIL to be closer to her family. It is normal for newlywed husbands to toe the line. We have had a few issues over the years where my OH was very cross with certain situations that arose on my behalf. I told him to sshhh.. Now the grand children have come along things have eased because we are the ones who pick up the slack looking after them, not her family.

There is so much joy in sharing grand children, please do not rock the boat in such a way that you lose that opportunity.

I do get completely where you are coming from, but it seems to be the circle of life.

@doyafeellucky I really feel for you and your wife. You sound like caring, loving parents who have put a lot into raising your family and want to continue to enjoy time with them now they're grown up and settled. Very much like my parents who are going through similar with one of my brothers, and I see the hurt they go through. I wish I could help them, and I wish I could offer some words of advice to you.

Another potential scenario might be that your DS is too scared of upsetting you or your wife and therefore is not telling you ‘no’ when really he should and not stopping you doing things that are upsetting your DIL. Fairly common with people who like to keep the peace/avoid conflict. It puts a massive strain on the whole in-law relationship. All the little things build to huge resentment. In this case there will be a lot of conflict between your DS and his wife before and after visits to you. Things like DIL sitting in the car might be because she is angry with your DS not you. They will naturally visit less if it is causing issues between them. Just another possibility to consider.

This made me really sad to read some times it hurts to realise that your relationships with family are not what you would like.
Don't threaten to remove or reduce inherence instead start spending it to make you and your wife happy.
Hi out and enjoy your selves on special occasions have a regular date night.
I would ensure that you have pre paid funerals
Get advances on your house and spend it on your bucket lists and of you don't have them watch TV see what fun there is to do in this world and start having fun
Realistically it doesn't sound as if your son will assist in your old age.
Best wishes to you and your wife for your future fun endeavours.

OP I think you sound very reasonable and supportive of both your wife and your son.
If I were in your shoes I would try to explain to the son how all of this has made you ( and your wife) feel, and try to open up a conversation about the whole situation, allowing your son to offer his feelings, so that you can try to work out a compromise or a way of helping everyone to feel happier.
Your son may say some things you don’t want to hear, there may be issues on his or his wife’s side that you’ve not been aware of.
The whole thing may turn out to be a long ongoing process, but talking honestly, respectfully with each other is the best way to start.

OP, I’m exhausted from even reading this furious, micro-detailed account of all the wrongs committed against you. I think you need to consider if your behaviour — and the way you seem to feel in perpetual competition with your DIL’s family and always coming off worst, and to be storing up her misbehaviours (in which your son seems to be far less blamed) — is contributing to the difficult dynamic.

"Hi DS, hope you're well, I've been missing spending time with you recently. If you're free it would be great to meet up for a beer/lunch/dog walk/round of golf"

Leave DIL out of it. She doesn't like you and tbf, she doesn't have to, but she's made it clear she's going to be a dick about it. Work on your relationship with your son and the rest should hopefully improve from there.

I can't stand my PILs, but I make a huge effort with them for OH and DC sake. I hate going to visit them, but we go anyway. I feel really uncomfortable the whole time we're there, but I wouldn't dream of letting them know this. Your DIL is being rude and you don't know if/how DS is handling it, but in the meantime, smile, ignore and reach out to him.