Son & wife's attitude issues

[doyafeellucky]

Sorry, this has turned into a longer post than intended but even then, I cannot describe all the situations and my frustrations.

Ive always been one to think I can work out problems but Im at my wits ends now. My wife and I both love our adult son who is now in his early 30's. Before our son and now wife were engaged and married, we thought we had made her feel welcome in both our home and family.

At first things seemed good. We have no problem with our son living a full independent life but, a number of things have hurt me. Im growing tired of the disregard being displayed by our son towards us and I feel we are being made into second choices. I dont expect our son to put us on a pedestal but think he and his wife should be sharing occasions more between the families rather than seeming to prioritise the others.

Prior to their marriage, I was shocked when we were told his future mother in law was organising a birthday bash for our son and would we like to come along? It was almost an after thought but hindsight suggests it was a hint of what was to come.

As most parents do nowadays, Bank of Mum & Dad, both us and our son's future mother in law helped them buy their first home. I didnt know at the time but her mother and partner were invited to house welcoming meal. We got no such invite which I find upsetting to say the least.

With initial income being tight, we asked if they'd like to come for tea, nothing special, once a month and they agreed. Everything was fine for the first 5 or 6 months. After one meal where my wife had spent time preparing, our son's fiancee decided she wanted to leave straight after the meal. I suggested my wife wanted some time to talk with them as she'd been preparing the meal and just upping and leaving was a bit unfair on her. Apparently that didnt bode well.

Later, we learnt my son's then fiancee started saying we were 'too formal,' whatever that means. Next our son says his fiancee didnt like coming to our home which meant they started visiting us less. When they visit together, they are always on their way out somewhere else or are coming back so they cannot stay long.

I have noticed she is always looking for an excuse to leave as soon as she arrives no matter how much effort we make to talk. She's more interested in her phone and What's App. But I come in useful at times for her being asked to take her to the nearest railway station from time to time.

Now, the last couple of times they have popped around, she has started staying outside in the car, again, meaning we dont get to see our son for long.

The actual wedding was something else, Our family was made to feel like it was there to make up the numbers. Unknown to us at the time, numerous official pictures of the bride and groom with all her family were taken. Despite members of our extended family being present we got 2 official pictures of my wife, our other son and myself with them. Even then, we were an after thought at seeing and being able to order the official pictures and given just 1 week before orders were no longer being taken. That hurt me enormously, goodness knows how my wife felt.

I later found out that during the evening reception when my wife welcomed our daughter in law into the family, she said our family name was 'sh*t' and she didnt intend using it although she does do so in all letters etc. I would probably have made a scene if my wife had told me this at the time.

It's the same at special occasions. 2 out of the last 3 Christmases, we have had to decamp to her mother's home because 'she always spends Christmas at her mother's and couldnt give a sh*t whether her now husband is with her or not.' Those are her words. We invited her family to ours in return for the first Christmas and would be happy to do so again but their plans are already made etc, etc so sorry we cannot make it.

Both my wife's and my birthday are near Christmas. Im not too bothered about celebrating my birthdays anymore. My wife and I had discussed it and decided to mark her birthday with some informal pub grub. But my son then says his wife doesnt like 'pub grub' which is strange because the last Christmas meal was at a pub! So we ended up having a restaurant meal which was nearer my birthday and not my wife's as I wanted.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.'

If these events were being held at my son and his wife's home, Id have no problem with this but every special occasion has to be at her mother's home, venue of choice or involvement. We dont even get the opportunity to ask would you like to go out for Mother's Day, anniversay etc.

I find myself hoping my son and wife do not have any children, I am convinced we would never see them while they'll spend all the time at her mother's.

Im at the point now where I consider I need to make my feelings clear to our son. If he wants to consider us as second choice parents, Im not inclined to make him first choice inheritance.

My wife seems prepared to put up with this while Im not as I think it's only going to get worse and we continue to be pushed aside. I really dont know how to broach the subject with my son. I find it hard to believe he doesnt see what is happening here because there are lots of other things going on that I havent covered.

Basically, how should I approach this? Thank you for reading and any input.

And also if you do say anything to your son never blame her. Because if he pulls him - your son will go back and tell his wife.

He will tell her things because he will want to justify that he hasn’t been up.

Just stick to the line - ‘I miss him, wish he would come up more’

To hazard a guess, (being invited for tea once a month) is was the tipping point when her pre-existing caution about your family, and your undercurrent of judgement about her as a spouse to your son really caught ablaze

Bit overblown isn't it? And just for a once a month invitation?

As said we can't know the whole story here, but surely they could make some effort, if only for the sake of good manners? (and sorry, but not giving a sh*t if the DS is there or not" doesn't count as good manners in my book)

I don't think you sound formal at all. She sounds absolutely awful and very selfish. Your son needs to grow a backbone and stop allowing this to happen. It's normal that daughters are generally closer to their own family but the way your son is allowing you and your wife to be treated is horrible.

It sounds like there is fault in both corners. She does sound quite rude but dont you agree that commenting she is your favourite daughter in law when she is your only one may be taken negatively? Or was it said in obvious jest? Dont give her any ammunition, and for godsake dont tell your son you hope they dont have children.

Address the elephant in the room. Ask your son outright what you've both done to upset her so much, as clearly there is something and you want to put it right. It's OK to let him know that you're feeling excluded from his life because of it, but don't lay any blame.

You're blaming your DIL rather than facing the fact that your DS seems to want to spend more time with his DW and his ILs than with you.
You sound hard work but I think you know that. Please do tell us about her inconsiderate parking when she sits in the car, I feel that was missing from your OP.

Before having children of my own I didn’t make a lot of effort to see my own parents socially, I was too busy having fun with friends. As soon as children came along I was really keen to get my parents involved and family became a much bigger part of my life. Don’t alienate your son now and risk the chance of not being involved as grandparents. All you can do is be there for him if he needs you and be happy for him that he’s found love (even if you don’t rate her!). Be patient.

You don't sound laid back--you seem as if you are one step away from exploding. When you are a parent, there can never be a "last straw." The door always needs to be open. You always need humor, curiosity, and a gentle touch. You need to slow down and breathe. Instead of insisting that your daughter in law make a plan with you, why not text her an inside joke or an article on a subject that you know that she would especially like? Something that would lower expectations and show a positive attitude toward her.

It does sound like you wait to be invited, and say nothing when you aren’t invited or thought about.

Why not ring your son and say ‘hi we thought you and bro would like to treat your mother to dinner for Mother’s Day, when are you free the week after/before so we can book something?

Christmas - ring DS and say ‘hi just checking your plans for Christmas, thought it would be nice to arrange something?

Keep plugging away - they might think you aren’t bothered

You sound very hurt by your son and DiL’s behaviour; few things sting as much as what seems to be grudging attention. The behaviours you describe from DiL: playing with her phone whilst visiting, sitting in the car rather than coming in and the comment about your family name being ‘shit’ are not just rude, they are immature. In particular, they are immature ways to express feelings. I’m not surprised you find all that wearing - it must be rather like humouring a sullen adolescent. I wonder if some of that irritation comes across? And if it does, that would be very human, but also likely to increase the tension. I’ve a picture of you and your wife gritting your teeth a bit during visits. I’d caution against threats to disinherit, that’s guaranteed to shatter the already strained relationship. I notice a sense of ‘quid pro quo’ in your sense of how things should be in families: joint gatherings, fair apportioning of time, and a sense you ‘spoiled’ your son and feel it’s been thrown back at you. This may again be something that comes across in your dealings with him and his wife. If they feel they are expected to do certain things, resentment is unfortunately going to creep in. Do you ever spend time just with him? Would an invitation to go for a walk/a pint/a chat be accepted (I mean just you and him). I’d suggest framing your feelings as wanting to be close to him and DiL but feeling things are not going well. Make sure you ask what your son feels about the situation too.

You and your wife have loved and brought up your son and you deserve better than this. Your daughter in law is rude and your son is thoughtless and cruel. Why should you just conveniently disappear because your daughter in law prefers her own family? I don't know what to suggest but I am sorry and I hope things get better.

It sounds like you have some pretty set views about how often your son and DIL 'should' visit/ spend time with you. I can't see the problem really with most of the situations you describe:

Her family arranging a birthday bash for him - so what? people often have more than one birthday celebration and this doesn't get in the way of you having another get together.

Not wanting to take your son's name - good on her! And without her here to explain her version of events we have no idea what she actually said or meant.

Seeing in-laws on mothers day as well as you - what's the problem with that? If you'd wanted to spend more time with him on that day I guess you needed to plan that some time ago as expecting them to be free all day at this notice is a bit rich.

House welcoming meal - most first houses are too small to invite everyone you'd want to and some people find it a bit overwhelming to cook for large numbers. This doesn't mean they wouldn't celebrate with you too.

I was really interested in your '"whatever that means" re: being too formal. It sounds like your son has tried to communicate with you about the issues for them but you've not understood what the issue is. How have you tried to clarify what's making them uncomfortable? Your DIL sounds desperately uncomfortable in your house and the sitting in the car could be seen as rude, but more importantly could be seen as saying something about how your DIL is feeling which needs to be listened to. She has obviously, in the past, been willing to make quite an effort (e.g. coming to the monthly meals) but something has changed. What was that?

How is op overbearing inviting them round for a meal? oh yeah real la di da

sitting outside in the car is just plain rude-just invite your ds over from now on if he says why cant dil come say of course shes always invite i didnt thik she wanted to

I get it - my brother is engaged wedding pending and he has gone from being a fully engaged member of our family - seeing nieces and nephews, taking them out.

We are a close family but do not live in each others pockets.

The past three years he has become distant, remote never sees nieces and nephews because he is so involved with her family. He missed both my parents last Xmas / bdays because they had to be with her family.

We are not allowed to know anything - and I quote - "we are a private couple and do not divulge information to you anymore". ie us not her family.

it is sad, hurtful but at the same time I am happy he has found someone he wants to be with finally. I just miss my brother and the easy friendship we used to have.

All I can say is the old person is still there OP - my brother visits on his own when on a business trip - we now live along way apart. First day he is closed down , second day it is oh sod it and back to old easy relationship.
Hold in there OP and putout some olive branches to your son first.

Ok, so I'm a DIL who has had huge problems with PILS over the years.

You need to take a step back and lower the intensity here. Your family and DILs family are very different, as are all families, it's nothing personal.

When I got with DH it was clear PIL had a idea in their mind of what things would be like, I felt pressured to perform and was thrust into this random family with dynamics etc. Meals out here there any everywhere, my family don't eat out a lot, sitting around drinking tea and chatting, again, my parents just aren't like that. My parents always have the TV on and life goes on around chatting. PIL switch everything off and sit just starting at you. To them it is normal to me it was very alien and formal, you may as well tied my hands and shone a light in my eyes.

Relationships take time to develop, years & years. I've been with DH 15 years now and over the years PIL and I have got to know each other better and I feel so much more comfortable around them.

These things take time and you will find your way but it won't be the vision you had in your mind, big families Christmas and both families spending time together. You might be cool with that but they obviously aren't, not because they don't like you just because some families and people just can't do it.

Talk to your son, invite him/them places rather than having a lip on about them not inviting you and whatever you do...DO NOT start throwing threats and inheritance and all that nonesense about unless you are prepared to never see or speak to your child or future grandchildren. He will tell DIL what you say and she won't forgive or forget. You will have years of heartache. You don't hurt your kids - you are better than that.

If & when they have children the dynamic will change.

You sound an intelligent guy, you're in this for the long haul, be sensible, try and see things from other peoples perspectives and you can make this work. You need to manage your relationship with them until things become more natural and I mean YOUR relationship, I know it must hurt like hell but them having a good relationship with her parents is a good thing, you need to get yours up there on a par with them not try and bring them down.

Good luck.

We go where we are loved, valued and happy. If your son felt this unconditionally I think you would see more of him.

I think you got yourself a classic Meghan&Harry situation here with mother in law included in the package.
You must be very pissed off at hearing and observing all these little snubs aimed at your family from DIL and you sound like a sensible chap to be listing everything the way you did, to actually take the time to process all the events and look at the bigger picture within the longer timeframe.
The way I see it, your son is utterly besotted with DIL and behaves like a robot doing absolutely everything she says. She probably doesn’t even need to say much anymore, he just know what might irritate her and not even attempt doing certain things like visiting his parents.I’ve seen this behaviour with couples countless times, it’s like a spell has been cast over the new husband. There is zero you can do about it. In time, your son will find his own identity again. However, you should remain welcoming to him (and her) and not hold grudges or view this situation as a competition between your family and her family. You love your son and he is, hopefully, happy with DIL. Perhaps try and organise things just with him (invite her if she wants to join but choose activities you know she wouldn’t like). By all means tell him how you feel but I don’t think it will achieve anything other than putting the burden on his shoulders and making him feel even worse, he can see how the situation is like and can’t influence it. You want your home to always feel welcoming to your DS so that if they have children he’d feel comfortable coming to visit - he would probably visit without her. Clearly DIL doesn’t like spending time at your house or with you and your DW. It’s not unusual but most daughters in law make an effort for the sake of their husbands because they realise families are important. It’s not because you are too formal, too boring, don’t come up to her standards of meal choices or because of your family name. She’d have probably treated different in-laws the same way even if they were identical to her own family. She can’t be bothered, she’s got what she wanted (your son) so she doesn’t need to consider you and your wife anymore. She is actually incredibly rude and she won’t change. Whatever you do or don’t do, avoid, at all costs, starting a war with the MIL.

Oh lay off the guilt trip Gamble

I don't think you sound uptight or formal, ignore PP's unkind comments. I do think you have every reason to feel sad - on behalf of yourself and your wife, that DIL isn't making the effort to include you as mch as she does her family.

I'm sure we all like our own families and find it easier to do things with them that we've always done - but she is being selfish and your son should be sticking up for you. There's no harm in just mentioning it to him - in many relationships the wife does all the organising, so she's probably just carried on doing her thing. He either hasn't noticed, or doesn't like to rock the boat, but a gentle prod might be all it takes. Worth a try...….

I'd detach OP.
We're of that generation that had different expectations regarding family and extended family: expectations that included being polite, tolerant and accepting of people. Family especially.
There's no wrongs or rights to it.
The world has changed and for the better in some ways, for worse in others and it's all about perspective.
These days, if you don't like someone, you don't make an effort, you go non contact or reduce any interactions with them and this is what has happened with your DIL.
Very likely, she can't cope with different ways of being, different ways of doing things and doesn't want you to have any influence over her husband.
You can't change that but you can manage it and show her that she has no power over you for that is what this is...a power play.
Just be cheery, let it wash over you and make an effort to fill your time with other things, other people who appreciate you. If you insist on a confrontation....you'll regret it.

Your dil sounds immature and a total nightmare!

For those defending her behaviour....how would you feel in op’s situation? I know I would be devastated. To sit outside in the car whilst he visits, is the ultimate snub, and I couldn’t cope with that, neither could most.

All of us with children would surely be heartbroken if they grew up, and wanted to constantly spend time with the in-laws at our expense?

Stop bashing the op with this “controlling” rubbish. The woman is being a dick, and needs to grow up.

If you call her the favourite DIL and she is the only one then that is condescending and slightly passive aggressive.

Don't be ridiculous, it's an affectionate joke, beloved of many parents and siblings! Only got one brother? "You're my favourite brother!"
My husband used to tell my mum she was his favourite mother in law! She loved it!

I think you’re getting a lot of really unfair responses here, you don’t sound too formal or unreasonable to me. Asking to see your son and daughter in law once a month is not asking too much or being controlling, it’s normal. I also don’t think there’s any excuse to take your money for a deposit and use you for lifts to the train station and what not and be so rude to call your family name sh*t, sit in the car when they visit and to make it so obvious they only see you because they absolutely have to. That’s so hurtful and unnecessary, I would be really upset as well. My MIL has done some pretty below the belt crappy stuff to my partner and myself over the years, but I still make effort to see her, make her feel included, have a relationship with her and just overall be pleasant, so there’s really no excuse to treat you so poorly imo unless you’re leaving something huge out of your story.

I think you have two issues here, first one is your DIL clearly for whatever reason does not like you and does not want a relationship with you unless you’re doing something for her, the second, more important issue, is that your son makes no effort to show you he cares about maintaining a good relationship with you and is happy to treat you both as second class citizens in comparison to his in laws. Even if she doesn’t like you or want to spend time with you there is nothing stopping him from seeing you once a month by himself, or making time to see your wife on Mother’s Day as well.

Tackling the first issue will be tricky and may not be possible as some people just do not gel, but stop doing things for her until she treats you with some level of respect and decency and find out if there’s something you’ve done to make her dislike you, if there is apologise. As for the issue with your son, sit down with him, have a chat and explain how you’re both hurt over how your relationship has been lately, being careful not to accuse or attack him or his wife, please do not mention the inheritance as no one responds to threats well, ask him if you’ve done something to upset them both. He might not realise how his actions have made you both feel, a lot of men once married expect their wives to manage their relationships with their own family for them because they’re lazy and thoughtless imo, I’ve seen it with my own father in law. It’s not her job to do that though, and if she doesn’t like you anyway, she’s definitely not going to. Maybe he needs a kick up the arse to realise that his parents have feelings and relationships as adults are two way streets.

The problem is that "other people who appreciate you" are no substitute for a relationship with your beloved son.

Your daughter in law sounds just like my one sister in law. If there was ever an opportunity to make a dig she took it. My brother never spoke up. My parents are no contact now and have changed their wills. My other sister in law is lovely.
Its really shit but its the way it is.