Son & wife's attitude issues

[doyafeellucky]

Sorry, this has turned into a longer post than intended but even then, I cannot describe all the situations and my frustrations.

Ive always been one to think I can work out problems but Im at my wits ends now. My wife and I both love our adult son who is now in his early 30's. Before our son and now wife were engaged and married, we thought we had made her feel welcome in both our home and family.

At first things seemed good. We have no problem with our son living a full independent life but, a number of things have hurt me. Im growing tired of the disregard being displayed by our son towards us and I feel we are being made into second choices. I dont expect our son to put us on a pedestal but think he and his wife should be sharing occasions more between the families rather than seeming to prioritise the others.

Prior to their marriage, I was shocked when we were told his future mother in law was organising a birthday bash for our son and would we like to come along? It was almost an after thought but hindsight suggests it was a hint of what was to come.

As most parents do nowadays, Bank of Mum & Dad, both us and our son's future mother in law helped them buy their first home. I didnt know at the time but her mother and partner were invited to house welcoming meal. We got no such invite which I find upsetting to say the least.

With initial income being tight, we asked if they'd like to come for tea, nothing special, once a month and they agreed. Everything was fine for the first 5 or 6 months. After one meal where my wife had spent time preparing, our son's fiancee decided she wanted to leave straight after the meal. I suggested my wife wanted some time to talk with them as she'd been preparing the meal and just upping and leaving was a bit unfair on her. Apparently that didnt bode well.

Later, we learnt my son's then fiancee started saying we were 'too formal,' whatever that means. Next our son says his fiancee didnt like coming to our home which meant they started visiting us less. When they visit together, they are always on their way out somewhere else or are coming back so they cannot stay long.

I have noticed she is always looking for an excuse to leave as soon as she arrives no matter how much effort we make to talk. She's more interested in her phone and What's App. But I come in useful at times for her being asked to take her to the nearest railway station from time to time.

Now, the last couple of times they have popped around, she has started staying outside in the car, again, meaning we dont get to see our son for long.

The actual wedding was something else, Our family was made to feel like it was there to make up the numbers. Unknown to us at the time, numerous official pictures of the bride and groom with all her family were taken. Despite members of our extended family being present we got 2 official pictures of my wife, our other son and myself with them. Even then, we were an after thought at seeing and being able to order the official pictures and given just 1 week before orders were no longer being taken. That hurt me enormously, goodness knows how my wife felt.

I later found out that during the evening reception when my wife welcomed our daughter in law into the family, she said our family name was 'sh*t' and she didnt intend using it although she does do so in all letters etc. I would probably have made a scene if my wife had told me this at the time.

It's the same at special occasions. 2 out of the last 3 Christmases, we have had to decamp to her mother's home because 'she always spends Christmas at her mother's and couldnt give a sh*t whether her now husband is with her or not.' Those are her words. We invited her family to ours in return for the first Christmas and would be happy to do so again but their plans are already made etc, etc so sorry we cannot make it.

Both my wife's and my birthday are near Christmas. Im not too bothered about celebrating my birthdays anymore. My wife and I had discussed it and decided to mark her birthday with some informal pub grub. But my son then says his wife doesnt like 'pub grub' which is strange because the last Christmas meal was at a pub! So we ended up having a restaurant meal which was nearer my birthday and not my wife's as I wanted.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.'

If these events were being held at my son and his wife's home, Id have no problem with this but every special occasion has to be at her mother's home, venue of choice or involvement. We dont even get the opportunity to ask would you like to go out for Mother's Day, anniversay etc.

I find myself hoping my son and wife do not have any children, I am convinced we would never see them while they'll spend all the time at her mother's.

Im at the point now where I consider I need to make my feelings clear to our son. If he wants to consider us as second choice parents, Im not inclined to make him first choice inheritance.

My wife seems prepared to put up with this while Im not as I think it's only going to get worse and we continue to be pushed aside. I really dont know how to broach the subject with my son. I find it hard to believe he doesnt see what is happening here because there are lots of other things going on that I havent covered.

Basically, how should I approach this? Thank you for reading and any input.

OP I totally get you. My mum has this problem, almost word for word with my brother and his wife. She is very upset about it, and has been for some time. Even the visiting her on their way out to somewhere or on the way back, her staying in the car so my brother says hi mom bye mom almost in the same breath. Your comment about thinking that in the future you will hardly see your grandchildren also resonate. I have told my mum that this is entirely my brothers fault. He should make the same effort to visit his mom as she makes to visit her. The bottom line is, men rarely do. I think she blames her because it is less painful than blaming him. My mom's partner did mention this to my brother and he did make an effort for some weeks, then back to square one. You have to pull up your son on this, not her. ps. Her comment about your name is awful (and that is from someone totally against this women taking men's surnames thing).

i think it’s awful not to thank someone properly for gifts of money. There’s no excuse.

We don’t know she didn’t thank them though, we just know they didn’t get invited for a meal. There are lots of ways to thank people.

Could you offer to travel to them a bit more, so that DIL is in her own space and could go off and do her own thing after a while?

She married him not the family

So once your child gets married you have to accept you are an after thought in their life? Jesus, some people can have such nasty attitudes to people.

Ah so that applies to the son to, he married her and not her family eh?

BestZebbie weeeeelll, if she is anything like my sil that won't go down well either...if her house isn't absolutely perfect, absolutely no one can visit, so, you saying you'd go to her place would get you in her black books for ever and ever Amen.

Oh gosh OP, this would be my worst nightmare. I think you need to speak with him and find out why she seems to dislike you.

Woah every time I read threads like this I thank my lucky stars that my parents and my DH parents never demand or interfere or bother us with anything. And actually as a result we see them all a lot because there's no pressure from anyone to do anything! It's just chilled. Just leave them to live their lives the way they want to. If you're always nagging to see them etc it gets draining and annoying.

Sorry @laguna but that is true in many cases. Once your children are grown up, the quality of relationship you have with them depends exactly on the amount of effort both parties are prepared to put into it. Like any other relationship between adults. My mum is huge on the Fear Obligation and Guilt but sadly she doesn't yet realise that those things only push me away - as they would if i was a friend or a partner.

One thing I will say OP, is you need to be working now to foster a really good close relationship with your other son, otherwise there are no guarantees this will not happen again.

What is his take on his brother's behaviour? I think my kids would be having strong words if one of them behaved badly to me or DH.

Your Son's probably ring weak and cowardly, he'll side with her to keep the peace.

When she sits outside in the car, why not go out there and tap on the window? Kill her with kindness. She'll be livid and hate it but screw her, she's being rude.

I think the quicker you let go of your expectations (justified or not) the happier you'll be. The die has been cast, its just wasted energy getting upset.

She married him not the family

But she’s was quite happy to take a big chunk of money off them to get a house. Ingratitude is an awful trait.

I don't think either side has covered themselves in glory here.
Her waiting in the car seems rude, but you aren't coming across as as laid-back as you claim to be. Threatening them over the inheritance is a low move... Why would they want a relationship with someone who is blackmailing them?

You seem determined to blame your DIL for the distance between your and your son. You don't seem to consider that you DS is an adult who has his own independent thoughts and will. Maybe he's the one who's making the choices?

I love my in-laws, but we're just different people. Dinner at theirs involves sitting at the table, in a draughty room, for hours afterwards discussing people I've never met (my DH's Gran's former next door neighbour being one of them). I tolerate this for DH's sake and would never be rude about it but it doesn't exactly fill my heart with joy at the concept.
They are lovely people but I suspect they might think they are a little be hard done by with contact time with DH, which they probably blame me for. It's not deliberate on my part. They seem to think the women is the one who is responsible for arranging contact/birthday cards/Christmas gifts/Christmas plans ect. I work full time, in a job that is very stressful, long hours and pays a lot more than DH earns...I'm not in position to pick up their wife-work as well. DH is an adult. He can make his own arrangements. He has a phone, he has a car, there is absolutely nothing stopping him doing what he wants.
You DS is also an adult, he can make his own arrangements too.

Also, I haven't seen anyone trolling you here... There are people disagreeing with you and giving you answers you don't like, but that's not trolling.

Sitting in the car is very rude- and something you should challenge there and then. It’s unacceptable and hurtful. And some of the other events you describe are also thoughtless - such as inviting her family for Thankyou dinner but not you.

However, some of your other expectations do seem rather high and you seem a little easily offended- for example, from how I read your op it seems you have been invited to DIL’s parents house for Christmas twice? I know that’s not exactly what you would like, but it’s not excluding you either. Moreover, the situation you described when you ended up going out for dinner nearer to your birthday than your wife’s and you compromised on the venue (maybe she just disliked the particular pub you had in mind? Also things are very busy around Christmas with lots of social events and it can be difficult to organise things exactly as you may want- that’s life!) Another situation is the birthday party before your son was married- on the surface this seems a lovely thing to do to for your son (of course I’m not sure of the detail- why did you feel you were only invited as an afterthought? Was the invitation to you last minute? If it was, maybe they presumed you were not organising anything yourself?) In my opinion these are little things that are annoying, but not worth cataloging and blowing out of all proportion- I would pick my battles wisely.

Maybe this is why she feels you are formal and a bit rigid? You obviously love your son, I can see your hurt, but try not to keep score going forward as this will just cause more upset and not get the outcome you want.

@crispysausagerolls if you read what I wrote, I didn’t say there was anything wrong with their ‘formal’. It clearly works for them! I said I find it suffocating and I spoke to my DH about the fact he would happily waltz off to the ‘toilet’ after finishing his breakfast, leaving me there to be questioned on every inch of my family life. The reason being he doesn’t enjoy it either. DIL shouldn’t be used by their husbands as a buffer to add smiles and niceties to cover an awkward and overly formal relationship with parents. If we visit his parents and it’s an uncomfortable experience for us both, then DH can at least go through it alongside me.

I can't see that you've answered the questions about your relationship with your son before he got together with his now wife, OP?

Did he come round for a monthly meal (on your instigation)? Did you invite him round off-the-cuff? Did he just assume he'd see you for the obvious special dates (birthday, mother's day, Christmas)? Did he ring you up and suggest seeing a film / going to the pub / watching football together?

It would be useful to know if his wife has "made" him be far less pro-active than he used to be in arranging to spend time with you, or whether he was always a bit half-arsed about it and now she's pro-actively organising things with her family, you miss out. Basically because they've got a child who makes plans to see them, and you don't.

(Your DIL sounds rude and obnoxious and like she doesn't like you, but to be honest there's not a lot you can do about that.)

This is one situation in which competition really is the thief of joy. So many problems could be avoided if people simply recognized that relationships are different, and accepted them on those terms without worrying about what the 'other side' were doing. As to this particular DiL, calling your family name 'shit' isn't only childish, it's downright insulting, not least to her own DH. As for sitting in the car when they visit, this is deliberately making a point about how little she wishes to see you. Were she less interested in the grand gesture she'd simply be outwardly civil and choose not to visit in the first place. She sounds childish. And from their perspective the once-monthly commitment may feel a bit directive, and could quickly start to seem like a chore. The comment about the Will might also be perceived as controlling, rather than loving parenting which tells the son they love him and their door will always be open for him come what may. I also thought this comment was very telling:

To the trolls, give it a rest and find something useful to do with your life for a change.

Be really honest with yourself OP: is this the kind of atittude you have taken toward your DiL? Then there is the comment that you hope they won't have the joy of their own children: just wow. The thread title's another revealing clue: 'son's and wife's attitude issues'. It seems to me there are faulty attitudes on both sides here, and however much it sticks in the craw, OP is the one who wants that situation to change whereas she/they are presumably happy for things to continue as they are.

OP, if you are really committed to improving family relations there is going to have to be some serious self-reflection on your side and less apportioning of blame. I hope it works out for you.

I think some posters are so obsessed with not doing wifework or not wanting to come from the 1950s and men being the abusers that they have gone too far the other way. Women might not hit their husbands but some do seem keen to drive a wedge between their husbands and his family.

Surely if your DH makes an effort with your family
, it’s not sexist to make an effort for his family?

Yes the conversation does need to be had carefully with the son and maybe he tells her to wait in the car or not to take her coat off or to say that the family name is shit but I doubt it.

I can sympathise on both sides here. Even just reading here on mumsnet alot of sons just don't make the effort to see their family and alot of the time they are pushed to do so by their partner. My own husband is like this. He'd never see his parents if I didn't arrange. My dad also, he's in his 70s and his mum is still alive in her 90s and he would never see or speak to her if it wasn't for my mum. It's horrible and I don't know why people are like this. If your son is doing this but his wife doesn't want to see you either then you will drift apart. She obviously prefers her own family for whatever reason. I don't mean to sound nasty but maybe your son does too.

My parents are very formal, like routine, all conversation has to be of a serious nature, my dad like political debates. There is never any fun and I always leave feeling drained. (I am not saying you are like this). When I met my in laws 20 years ago it was like a breath of fresh air. I loved going to them as they were fun, welcoming, laid back, their house always full of people and clutter and homely. I still prefer theirs over my own family.
Unfortunately you cannot force a relationship if they don't want to. I would be there for them and be pleasant and happy to see them, but i would not try to compete with the other family or try to fight for their affection.

There is a lot going on here and I think a lot is not fixable.If you decide to "have a word" it will make it worse. Some of the behaviour has been very bad. I am saddened that you brought up inheritance which should not be even thought about. Instead of having them to tea once a month, which was never a good idea, focus on keeping regular informal contact with them or just your son. Casual meet ups, phone chats etc. It is very common for wives to favour their own family, ask mothers of sons. My relationships woth my DILs, while good, is totally different than my relationships with my daughters, hence my sons have drifted a little. You cannot demand or expect. You need to be warm an unentitled. I probably would not give them any more money, just say you dont have any spare. It is rde for the wife to wait in the car, I would ask her too pop in for a minute. Things like Mothers Day really should be driven by your son, not th DIL, clearly its not going to work all together, instead of a lunch they could see one mother am and one pm. Demand nothing at christmas, its a minefield. Next year I would suggest to your son that it would be nice if he did something for mothers day, but not reprimand him for the add on slight. As a parent we really have to take these things on the chin. It is up to our children to lead the way, not us. If they dont they are either led by the wife or dont really want to be with us, sometimes for good reason. We cannot EXPECT, filial duty can be a terrible burden. A bit like teaching a dog to have a good recall, they have to want to come back to you. Sadly some dont. Build on what you have and what you can

Hi,
I have read most of the thread but not all so apologies if I repeat anyone.

I wanted to ask you about your other son that this discussion is not about and just remind you to cherish him as if he feels all your energy is about the son you don't see much while he is like "hello - I'm here" then you could be setting yourself up for round two of the same issue in future.

You mentioned going to your son and daughter in laws parents for Xmas day. what did your other son do then? tag along or does he have his own Family? anyhow make sure he isn't second best.

You have given your son a deposit for his house. have you given your other son the same or protected it for him in the future so he gets the same before anything remaining is divided up?

I swear if i see this bullshit trotted out one more time I'm going to pop an artery. How the heck are we supposed to confront sexism when we perpetuate this kind of shit ourselves?

This kind of folk wisdom has been handed down generations because it’s true.

You’ve taken a hell of a pasting here, OP, for no particular reason as far as I can see. Your Dil is rude to the point of offensiveness. How can anyone defend her behaviour? Sitting outside in the car and then requesting lifts? Seriously?

In your position I’d row back from it all. Be too busy to give lifts. Don’t invite them round. Contact your son once a week just to check in that things are OK and leave it at that. Go out, have fun, have holidays, spoil your wife on those special days, and leave them to stew in their own juice. I wouldn’t discuss it with your son, as a pp has said, it will all get reported back and twisted to your detriment.

It sounds as if your Dil feeds on drama, stop feeding the beast. Live and enjoy your own lives and stop giving her any importance in them.

sometimes MN is like the twilight zone. Do people genuinely just think “I don’t like this person so I refuse to deal with them whatsoever”, even if that’s a beloved family member of a spouse?!

think some posters are so obsessed with not doing wifework or not wanting to come from the 1950s and men being the abusers that they have gone too far the other way. Women might not hit their husbands but some do seem keen to drive a wedge between their husbands and his family.

Dashel Do men arrange things with their DW family, ensure the PIL get gifts, days out etc?
Nope they dont so why should women facilitate their DH relationships with his parents

my MIL has three sons and one of them have a very similar relationship to what you have described. I would say go easy at first and maybe try and explain how you feel but be aware they may not agree with you. The wife sounds like hard work (not caring if she spends Christmas with her husband) Try and support while getting your views out. You may find you never have the relationship you want and you will have to decide if it is more important to have him in your life or not. I hope things can be worked out

This kind of folk wisdom has been handed down generations because it’s true

It’s true because men aren’t being raised to take responsibility for maintaining relationships, not because evil woman are snatching away poor vulnerable men, and yet women are always blamed. It’s not good enough that we maintain relationships with our own friends and family, we have to do it for the poor manchild who can’t possibly invite his own mum round for tea.