Son & wife's attitude issues

[doyafeellucky]

Sorry, this has turned into a longer post than intended but even then, I cannot describe all the situations and my frustrations.

Ive always been one to think I can work out problems but Im at my wits ends now. My wife and I both love our adult son who is now in his early 30's. Before our son and now wife were engaged and married, we thought we had made her feel welcome in both our home and family.

At first things seemed good. We have no problem with our son living a full independent life but, a number of things have hurt me. Im growing tired of the disregard being displayed by our son towards us and I feel we are being made into second choices. I dont expect our son to put us on a pedestal but think he and his wife should be sharing occasions more between the families rather than seeming to prioritise the others.

Prior to their marriage, I was shocked when we were told his future mother in law was organising a birthday bash for our son and would we like to come along? It was almost an after thought but hindsight suggests it was a hint of what was to come.

As most parents do nowadays, Bank of Mum & Dad, both us and our son's future mother in law helped them buy their first home. I didnt know at the time but her mother and partner were invited to house welcoming meal. We got no such invite which I find upsetting to say the least.

With initial income being tight, we asked if they'd like to come for tea, nothing special, once a month and they agreed. Everything was fine for the first 5 or 6 months. After one meal where my wife had spent time preparing, our son's fiancee decided she wanted to leave straight after the meal. I suggested my wife wanted some time to talk with them as she'd been preparing the meal and just upping and leaving was a bit unfair on her. Apparently that didnt bode well.

Later, we learnt my son's then fiancee started saying we were 'too formal,' whatever that means. Next our son says his fiancee didnt like coming to our home which meant they started visiting us less. When they visit together, they are always on their way out somewhere else or are coming back so they cannot stay long.

I have noticed she is always looking for an excuse to leave as soon as she arrives no matter how much effort we make to talk. She's more interested in her phone and What's App. But I come in useful at times for her being asked to take her to the nearest railway station from time to time.

Now, the last couple of times they have popped around, she has started staying outside in the car, again, meaning we dont get to see our son for long.

The actual wedding was something else, Our family was made to feel like it was there to make up the numbers. Unknown to us at the time, numerous official pictures of the bride and groom with all her family were taken. Despite members of our extended family being present we got 2 official pictures of my wife, our other son and myself with them. Even then, we were an after thought at seeing and being able to order the official pictures and given just 1 week before orders were no longer being taken. That hurt me enormously, goodness knows how my wife felt.

I later found out that during the evening reception when my wife welcomed our daughter in law into the family, she said our family name was 'sh*t' and she didnt intend using it although she does do so in all letters etc. I would probably have made a scene if my wife had told me this at the time.

It's the same at special occasions. 2 out of the last 3 Christmases, we have had to decamp to her mother's home because 'she always spends Christmas at her mother's and couldnt give a sh*t whether her now husband is with her or not.' Those are her words. We invited her family to ours in return for the first Christmas and would be happy to do so again but their plans are already made etc, etc so sorry we cannot make it.

Both my wife's and my birthday are near Christmas. Im not too bothered about celebrating my birthdays anymore. My wife and I had discussed it and decided to mark her birthday with some informal pub grub. But my son then says his wife doesnt like 'pub grub' which is strange because the last Christmas meal was at a pub! So we ended up having a restaurant meal which was nearer my birthday and not my wife's as I wanted.

The last straw is son and wife came around on Saturday to say they are going out with her mother for Mother's Day and would we like them to visit us 'on the way there or on the way back.'

If these events were being held at my son and his wife's home, Id have no problem with this but every special occasion has to be at her mother's home, venue of choice or involvement. We dont even get the opportunity to ask would you like to go out for Mother's Day, anniversay etc.

I find myself hoping my son and wife do not have any children, I am convinced we would never see them while they'll spend all the time at her mother's.

Im at the point now where I consider I need to make my feelings clear to our son. If he wants to consider us as second choice parents, Im not inclined to make him first choice inheritance.

My wife seems prepared to put up with this while Im not as I think it's only going to get worse and we continue to be pushed aside. I really dont know how to broach the subject with my son. I find it hard to believe he doesnt see what is happening here because there are lots of other things going on that I havent covered.

Basically, how should I approach this? Thank you for reading and any input.

I swear if i see this bullshit trotted out one more time I'm going to pop an artery. How the heck are we supposed to confront sexism when we perpetuate this kind of shit ourselves?

^This.

The OP's relationship is between them and their son, this lazy expectation that a woman must facilitate it is the cause of most of the DiL/PiL problems I see in RL.

It also puts women firmly in the role of domestic carer as it implies the son is passed from mother to wife who is presumably expected to carry on mothering him in place of his actual mother.

Our situation is not dissimilar, my in laws are perfectly fine and as time goes on we do get on, but to I will always far prefer spending time with my own family, and actually so does my husband.

My take on it is as follows: We have a lot of fun with my family. My parents are tech savvy and engaged with how we live life. We meet up for lunch (and drink too much). They host dinner and we stay up til the early hours putting the world to rights, similar when they come to us. We whatsapp a lot, in a family group with all my siblings, who also get on really well and get on really well with DH. My mum invites all the new other halves to join the family whatsapp embarrassingly early and the contact on it is pretty much daily. We share photos of holidays, each others children, send birthday messages etc. Nothing is formal - we are useless at things like sending a birthday card in the post, or a thank you letter, but we chat and laugh a lot. DH's family are the opposite, they don't do mobile phones or social media and certainly not whatsapp. They expect written thank you letters, they don't correspond with me directly except occasionally by email, otherwise they pass a message through DH. If we go to their house the conversation is generally about: who in their family has upset them or will die soon/which of the neighbours has offended them/which expensive holiday has not been up to standard lately. It's usually pretty negative, even if said in jest, and I smile and laugh along, but it leaves me feeling completely drained rather than uplifted. DH also turns into a much more introverted version of himself, and when he does speak it's as if he is putting on a show personality that he doesn't use anywhere else. This is obviously quite unrelaxing for me as it changes our marital dynamic completely! As a result I am pretty withdrawn compared to my usual self too.

I would honestly love to have in laws that were more similar to my family and if they were I am sure we would spend lots of time with them, but that is just not how things have turned out. I think it's not that unusual for there to be an imbalance in favour of one side. Even where there's not, I don't actually think it's at all common these days for the two sides of the family to come together and spend time - weddings, christenings, and perhaps Christmas under unusual circumstances.

Most people, especially young people with busy lives, gravitate towards having a good time in their free time, which is limited, so they will choose to spend it in the most fulfilling way possible. This might seem selfish to older people I suppose. It sounds as though your son is trying to make an effort with you, as is my DH with his family, but a sense of duty will only take things so far if its not enjoyable. This is just my honest take on my situation but perhaps there might be some insights in here for you.

^^ Yes

There's 3 possibilities here

1. your DIL is a bully and controlling

2. your son enjoys his IL's company more than yours so is happy the way things are

3. your son isn't bothered where he spends time

If it's 1) you have to wait until your son sees it.
If it's 2) you have to accept that he's an adult with preferences
If it's 3) then you need to accept that he'll come alone for short periods.

I could have written your post, im a sister to a brother with a wife exactly the same as your daughter jn law.

Im n

I can undestand how you feel. Daughter-in-law sounds rude and immature and I don't understand why other posters are siding with her saying you are 'too formal'. Of course they're not obliged to spend their time equally between families and she may have a different way of doing things but leaving straight after a meal or sitting in the car when visiting you is just plain childish.

Don't threaten to disinherit though. Galling as the situation may be, he's still your son and reacting in anger isn't going to help. Make it clear that they are always welcome in your home but if they are rejecting invitations to family events, (birthday meals at the pub) go out and enjoy yourselves without them.

Yeah no. If someone is prepared to give you a large sum of money to help you purchase your home - I don't thinks it's too much to expect that you get out the car if they come to visit. Maybe that's just me though.

I'm sorry you're going through this.

My mum frequently feels rejected by my s-i-l, although my s-i-l doesn't actually do anything wrong. My parents are hard work though, my dad is massively grumpy and my mum is always moaning, so even I don't want to spend a great deal of time with them and I love them.

I have to repeatedly explain to mum that my s-i-l has her own mother that she wants to share her life with and my mum can't just take up the position of "mum" to someone she has never raised.

All I can recommend is that you pull back a little and rather than force invites on them, tell your son and d-i-l that your door is always open and they are welcome any time.

I hope the situation gets better for you.

Hit post by mistake....

I wont go into details on here but basically my brother and his wife have had no contact with my parents for nearly two years which coincided with the very sudden death of my husband. I have had no contact since then either.

My parents have been having contact with their grandchildren via skype and gave been told by my brother that they can start havjng contact again on his terms or nothing.

I will under no circumstances have anything to do with them after the way they have treated my parents and myself. My parents are having contact but on his terms, i am totally disgusted to be honest. My parents, especially my mother want contact so have no choice but to go along with it.

This utlimately is what choice you have i think. The no contact for two years came about from being in a situation very like yours where a big birthday celebration happened without any of my family knowing and seeing the pictures on FB. They took umbrage when asked about it, hence the two years no contact.

Its put up or shut up im afraid. My brother has mo backbone whatsoever snd his wife calls the shots

@doyafeellucky I could of written this myself about my brother. This has been an ongoing issue for many years now. Our family has been totally pushed aside for her family. We have never done anything but make her feel welcome. I used to go up to their house every Friday after work but that soon stopped when her mother was always there. They wouldn't speak to me and would make me feel unwelcome. There was one occasion her mother tried to stop me from seeing my nieces and nephews. It's pathetic. Life's too short. I've given up making the effort now. They never come to visit my parents house. Unless my brother needs something that is... then he comes alone. I've just given up now. I'm going through a really tough time with my health and have been since I was 13 (now 24) and the most recent time I was rushed into hospital they weren't arsed. I don't expect sympathy from anyone but at least a message to ask how I am or even why I've been rushed into hospital would of been nice. It is very hurtful and I 100% understand how you feel. I just think now, life is too short. If they want to come and see us then they will. If not, it will be them living with the regret when it's too late. It honestly really infuriates me. No matter what you do, you won't change his mind. I spoke to my brother in regards to this not long ago and nothing has changed. X

I love how many people are saying “oh poor you OP, you sound lovely, I don’t know why people are being so mean to you. Your DiL is a bitch...”

So no men are to blame, it’s all DILs fault that their son can’t be arsed to see his parents or arrange anything with them. Yes he must be some poor abused spineless man who is railroaded by a nasty woman. Much easier to accept that than that your son just can’t be arsed. Can’t put any responsibility on him can we....

Very interesting reading the comments. I'm married to one of two brothers, and I see a very similar estrangement happening to the other brother - they spend a lot more time with her family and all special occasions favour them; my SIL is increasingly very frustrated by my ILs and becoming less and less polite; my PIL are getting frustrated and annoyed. I mostly take my PIL side (in my head, I wouldn't say anything to either side!) but I can see how the situation is getting more entrenched.

My PIL are - I think - mostly dealing with it beautifully, from the point of view of keeping the relationship with their son as strong as it can be. Which - rather than 'winning' some kid of battle around who sees most of who - has got to the the right outcome, surely? I think they've accepted that she will always favour her family, and he won't think about prioritising his (or doesn't want to). That's been really hard for them, and by extension, has put pressure on his brother (my dh) too.

So based on my PIL/DIL's experiences, I'd say:

• Don't hold onto a list of wrongs: and certainly don't ever go saying it beyond your wife (& anonymous sites!). I can guarantee your SIL & son... have a list too, and you won't like or agree with theirs...
• Keep the door open, and keep being kind. Compliment your DIL and your son; thank them for coming and say how much you enjoy seeing them - essentially, don't give them a chance to feel slighted. Live on the moral high ground, not by threatening to disinherit them!
• Remember that YOUR family rules (e.g. We Always Alternate Christmases) are not her family rules, or the new couple's family rules. Just because you personally did it, doesn't mean that's how the world works. This is tough, and personally, I hold strictly to the alternating rule in my personal dealing with my ILs and my family, but letting go of it as an expectation on others frees up lots of emotional energy!
• If there are important events that you want to see them on, plan in advance - don't wait to fit around their plans. Invite them and make the invitation appealing: think honestly about what THEY would like, and keep things low commitment (coffee and cake and a walk rather than supper? Friday fish and chips rather than a sit down meal? Remember her preferences (white wine or red? Mayo or ketchup) and make sure you cater to them.
• Keep talking to your son, separate to your DIL. Just continue to be around and helpful; touch in with him regularly, do stuff separately. Always ask after your DIL and send best wishes, but keep that relationship with your son strong.
• Be ready to listen. Your DIL has told you you're 'too formal'. Your response to that wasn't to find out what made her feel that way, or try and adapt to make her feel welcome; but to deny that was in any way possible. She's not wrong, just different.

From what you've posted, I'd say there's fault on both sides: your DIL is certainly very rude to sit in the car rather than coming in, and but being honest you do ready-to-take-slight over formal (the whole 'we need to take turns on what I have decided count as special occasions for example'; offering to pop in on Mothers Day = huge insult) . However, without hearing tone and being there, it's really hard to know.

What is clear is that you're putting a lot of emotional energy into being 'wronged' in this relationship and getting your 'fair share'. I'm not sure that's how relationships work... people spend time around people they want to spend time around generally, and right now, they're not choosing you.... You maybe need to won that a little more than you are.

@slinkysaluki

Very similar situation in our family with nasty SIL. Wouldn’t even let my mother into her house and didn’t show up to huge events eg mother’s 60th because she was “hungover”. 0 fucks, 0 respect and 0 effort. Some people just do not give a shit about reciprocal relationships or being a part of their partner’s relationship with their family. I might be old fashioned but I think it’s just rude and arrogant.

I find my PIL suffocating and formal. It’s just how they do ‘family’ - everyone waits to have a sit down breakfast together which lasts a couple of hours on the weekend

So? So they do things differently from you? So what? What the fuck is wrong with “formal”? It may not be how you are but 1) how you are isn’t “right” or “wrong” (same for them), and 2) is it so much to ask to just put up with it once a month for the sake of manners and being a good person.

I cannot believe OP gave them large financial help for their house too. No, there shouldn’t be any strings attached but yes, if I was the DIL and I accepted the help I would naturally feel obligated to at least go into the bloody house once a month and make nice. And if that’s not something i was prepared to do (not a big ask IMO), I wouldn’t have accepted the money.

It’s mind boggling the arrogance of some people who enter into relationships and then think they sit in some sort of power seat where they don’t need to compromise or make nice, be polite or make an effort. Saying she doesn’t give a shit if her husband is with her for Christmas makes her sound like a charmer too 😑

I've not seen the OP describe anything that suggests the DiL is preventing them seeing their son or exercising coercive control, just that she doesn't conform to their expectations of a DiL.

What, like the expectations of not sitting outside in the car whilst their son visits? Hardly the most outlandish request.

If a woman had posted that her husband sat sulking in the car outside a house whilst she went in for a coffee with her parents he would be labelled a controlling bastard from the very first post. But because she's a woman we're supposed to defend her? She's a rude cow.

If a woman had posted that her husband sat sulking in the car outside a house whilst she went in for a coffee with her parents he would be labelled a controlling bastard from the very first post. But because she's a woman we're supposed to defend her? She's a rude cow

Bullshit. For all you know the son told her to wait in the car as he’d only be quick. The son seems to use his wife as an excuse not to see his parents, otherwise he’d go see them himself. But yeah, based on NOTHING, let’s assume it’s all her fault.....

I think op summed it up when he said the son was spoiled rotten. Sad to say you’ve raised a man who has so little respect or gratitude to his mother that he doesn’t think of doing something nice for her on Mother’s Day.

That saying “A son is his Mothers until he takes a wife. A daughter is a friend for life” obviously offends people but it is true IF you’ve raised your daughters to be considerate and caring whilst raising your sons to think only of themselves.

Did you model considerate, caring male behaviour?

I suspect if this were my family my dad would be taking me to one side to say he didn’t care about occasions or remember dates but I’d hurt my mother’s feelings by disregarding her. My dad is also the one reminding my son to say happy mother’s da and ensuring my son has something to give me.

This is learned behaviour.

When she talked of being with her family and not giving a shit if her husband was there she might well have been expressing her commitment to her family and her total comfort with her husband doing the same. These are his choices. For whatever reason she has grown up to value and consider her family and he hasn’t.

I think you need to play a different game here. It is obnoxious of your SIL and son to take money from you and then treat you badly. Sitting in the car outside is just wrong on all levels.

If it was me, I wouldn’t invite them round at all for a trial period. Go for a drink with both of your son’s occasionally. See your other son and leave your rude son to his own devices.

Never tolerate her waiting in the car outside again. If they come round and she stays in the car, send your son away nicely ‘ Gosh, your obviously really too busy to stay at if X hasn’t got time to get out of the car, why don’t you come back when you have time to be relaxed. ‘

And do them no favours and give them no more cash, that sort of generosity should be reserved for people who treat you with kindness.

I would never sit outside someone’s house like that, it is beyond rude. If I disliked my in laws enough to do that, I would stay at home and send my husband on his own.

I feel for you, but there's not much you can do. The more you push the more they will see visiting you as an obligation rather than something to look forward to.

If i were you I would concentrate on trying to really connect with them in a fun way when they do visit - there's a lot of truth in the saying that the family that plays together stays together. That's true even when they're in their 30s.

Don't try to force the fun, that will be even worse than stuff awkward meals together. Think back to the things you and your son enjoyed doing together when he was younger. Did you take him to his first football match or to see his favourite band? Did you play lots of board games etc? Do your wife and his have any common interests they can build on?

Remember connection or reconnection is a marathon not a sprint. It takes time to build up trust and rapport and your dil will be a part of your life possibly forever so you have plenty of time to improve things. Try to think of it less in terms of keeping score with her family and more in terms of building a mutually respectful relationship that will last.

I do agree with others that you're coming across quite intense and maybe overbearing. Try to reflect on what might be causing this. What's underneath it? Is it fear of losing your son? Of being alone in old age? Those feelings might be making you feel quite vulnerable and some people mask vulnerability in a way that makes them seem 'a bit much'. Google Brene Brown. She's the expert.

I agree Crispy

Our family thought we had a good relationship, its only since all this happened that we look back at situations and now see that there was obviously a problem before the birthday thing. She has sent incredibly nasty texts to myself and my mother. If you met her you would think butter wouldnt melt.

My father had cancer also whilst this was happening, no regard for his welfare or health from either if them, or when i lost my husband. No empathy, no sense if humour, no warmth just cold and hard.

I swear i will not play their game. I will never forgive them for what they've done.

Quick follow up - I agree that it is totally unacceptable for her to sit in the car and would never do that. However I haven't changed my name, and probably have made comments that I don't like DH name as much, I could even have said something like "[my first name] [DH family name] sounds shit!' without meaning that they had a shit name, which they don't. She may not have meant to be rude, she may just have to justify herself in not changing her name, which is her decision, though you wouldn't think it based on the comments you get for it...

Regarding your feeling that you have given them money and they need to be more grateful - we have been given money by my inlaws too, though to DH before we were actually married. I've never said thank you because it didn't feel like it was a gift made to me (based on the way it was done in our case). If her parents gave her the same she may feel similarly I suppose. Regardless, it would at best make her feel a duty to be nice to you, when what you should be aiming for is an atmosphere that is enjoyable for all of you to participate in.

sorry to say but it really could be as simple as she doesnt feel very comfortable around you no matter how welcome you've made her in your mind. I felt similar with my inlaws. nothing wrong with them per se but just not my kind of people and unfortunately that's just sometimes the way it is.

it seems like you had an idea in your head perhaps of how you wanted family life to be and it hasnt lived up to that

I don’t like my DH’s surname either which he knows so I chose to keep mine when we married. I didn’t mean any disrespect to his family name (), it’s just not a very pleasant sounding name...

Anyway, I think your DIL isn’t comfortable with you and your wife for whatever reason and your son’s loyalties obviously lie with her. I wouldn’t make a massive drama about it because you’ll come across even worse. You may have to quietly move forward in life and let him come to you when he wants to.

The thing that would piss me off most is the fact you helped with their house deposit and they invited her parents over to say thank you but not you. I can see why it’s all hurtful but kicking off won’t bode well at all.

I think it’s awful not to thank someone properly for gifts of money. There’s no excuse.

This thread is gold. Do brace yourself and read it op - difficult reading at times but your situation is difficult so you'll need to grasp some nettles at some point along the way.

Formal can just mean having decent manners though.

For instance, we eat every meal at the kitchen table, say please and thank you to each other, have a no screen rule and just generally chat shit and catch up with everyone's day. We have had the odd one or two of our adult kids' boyfriends and girlfriends be absolutely traumatised by this set up. They are more used to something like a ready meal in front of the telly. And no talking to boring parental aged people ever.

Thing is, our kids are well brought up. If offered a ready meal in front of the telly at someone else's house, they don't kick off and vow to never go there again, they adapt and are polite and get on with it.

Significant numbers of people have no idea how to behave in an adult civilised way. It's their way or nothing and heaven forbid they do anything that takes them outside their comfort zone.