People using lifts

[Aquarius1619]

I’m actually a bit annoyed at myself for being petty enough to post this.
But this really got under my skin today!! I have an 11 month old who isn’t keen on the pram, will sit in there for 15 minutes or so but as soon as I stop moving she has a meltdown.
So we were waiting for the lift as we were parked on floor 5 in the local shopping mall today and I was stood behind a queue of people waiting to use the lift. People with no shopping, no kids, just didn’t want to use the stairs. And it took 20 minutes for me to get in the lift because each time it would come to my floor it was full of people with no kids, no wheelchairs, no walking sticks so then we’d wait for the next one then one of the people in front of me with nothing to carry would get in it. I know every disability isn’t visible either but FFS I’m talking a load of people here. By the time some of them had eventually got in the lift it would’ve been quicker for them to have walked up and down the whole place! Meanwhile DD is having a meltdown because we’d been stood around for ages. Is it unreasonable to expect people to just use the stairs and free up the lifts for people who actually need them? If I have no pram with me I always use the stairs

What is wrong with someone only using a lift for the convenience? That is what they are there for. There are (almost never) signs saying they are for buggies and people with disabilities.

@Lolasmiles

You can keep trying to post to tell me how my attitude is wrong. I think yours is, sorry.

I will say it again: people use badges here to indicate they have an invisible disability. People follow the rules (which is why Tokyo is the safest city in the world) so it’s safe to say that people who don’t wear them and are not elderly can use the stairs. Very different situation then in the UK, I know, but it’s a completely different world. Take it from someone who lives here and who KNOWS instead of assuming it all works the same way as in the UK.

I will say it again: people use badges here to indicate they have an invisible disability
People follow the rules (which is why Tokyo is the safest city in the world) so it’s safe to say that people who don’t wear them and are not elderly can use the stairs. Very different situation then in the UK, I know, but it’s a completely different world.
Yes, which is why I've just said that if someone is in a place where badges are the norm and they're going to be on the receiving end of judgement for daring to use a lift without one, it's probably more safe to conclude that someone without a badge on could have easily forgotten it or has a genuine reason (because believe it or not even people in cities who follow rules can still forget because they're human, unless of course you're now going to say a whole city of people are immune from being human).

So my thoughts still stand, if your response to seeing someone without a badge on is "you shouldn't be using the lift and I have a buggy" instead of "given the norm for badges they probably have a reason and it's only a lift" then that's your attitude, not the system.

Take it from someone who lives here and who KNOWS instead of assuming it all works the same way as in the UK.
Yet again, I'm not assuming the world is the same as the UK. I'm saying humans are humans and even in a place that has lots of rules, someone doesn't magically become less disabled the day they forget their badge so only an arsehole would be complaining that a badgeless person was in the lift queue.

Japan is the 9th safest. Iceland is number 1.

These things though are only available to residents. As a tourist, we have to take a letter translated and hope for the best. Even wheelchair users!! The resident disabled ID is passport size and contains personal medical details. To get a badge you need this passport which isn't obligatory. Nope, not going to happen. Why should someone at a ticket office know my medical info? And based on tourist information, even residents can be challenged when wearing the disabled badge so it's advisable to carry this passport.

When someone puts their bump into my face to try and get me to move, I stay sitting. Ask me and I might move.

In the UK we have a baby on board badges for transport and a Daisy lanyard for hidden disabilities. We don't have to go through all the crap to get them. They don't get challenged and thankfully not compulsory.

@Lolasmiles

Your argument is ridiculous sorry.
Fact is, I CAN’T use the stairs with a pram and others who stand in the queue that I see often taking the stairs appearently can, or else they wouldn’t leave the queue to take the stairs or the escalator if they appearently have to wait too long.

And repeatedly telling me that I’m an arsehole because I have a different opinion ironically only proves my point that you’re one because you’re intolerant of different opinions and are trying to win a discussion by being incredibly rude.

I often get the lift and I don't class myself as disabled although my knee hurt occasionally. I'm overweight and I walk lots in my day to day job. If I'm af a train station or similar where I need to rush then I get the lift. Because rushing up and down stairs while hoping I make my connection and getting out of puff, isn't my idea of fun. Anyone can use a lift. Yabu

And even if badges weren’t a completely disrespectful system how does that work for the person who has a horrendous migraine so needs to sit down? Or the person who have slipped and twisted their ankle so can’t use the stairs at that point?

Way too many variables to but any faith in such a system

Namechangeforwhat
Nobody is saying you should use the stairs with a buggy.

What I'm saying is if your first response to seeing anyone without a badge is to assume they have no right to be there, you have a buggy so have priority, other unworthy people being in that queue means it's their fault you nearly miss your train so they shouldn't be there (when a queue could still be there full of "rightful" users so it's your time issue) then that is your attitude.

And repeatedly telling me that I’m an arsehole because I have a different opinion ironically only proves my point that you’re one because you’re intolerant of different opinions and are trying to win a discussion by being incredibly rude
I'm not intolerant of different opinions. I'm intolerant of people who think they can decide based on looking whether someone can justify being in a lift. I'm also just intrigued as to how anyone can claim they have a skill to determine someone's worthiness to use a lift.

For example, if someone with an invisible disability forgets to transfer their badge to their new coat who are you (or anyone) to decide they shouldn't be in the lift queue?

Or the special badge falls off on the way to the station, is that person now magically less disabled?

And even if badges weren’t a completely disrespectful system how does that work for the person who has a horrendous migraine so needs to sit down? Or the person who have slipped and twisted their ankle so can’t use the stairs at that point?

Doesn't count because, you know, some people have buggies and having a buggy gives you the right to decide who deserves to be in the lift queue, and if anyone points out the problems in an individual CHOOSING to judge anyone not wearing a badge (which is separate to an system where people tend to wear them) then blaming the system allows individuals to abdicate any responsibility for their judgemental attitude.

Eg. Scene at a lift
A: you don't deserve to be in the queue. I have a buggy don't you know and people like you hold me up because you're just using a lift out of laziness
B: actually I really need to get home and my migraine means the world keeps spinning , not that my personal reasons are any business of yours, so save your judgement and mind your own business.
A: oh I'm not being judgemental. I couldn't possibly be judgemental because other people wear badges so I just assume anyone not wearing one is lazy.. of course I'm not being judgemental you see.

I still cannot get over the fact that a wheelchair user may be challenged about their 'worthiness'.
Fuck me we have a long way still to go in the UK in regards to disability. But anyone who challenges a wheelchair user, with or without a badge isn't someone who I would consider civilised.

Thank goodness that the badge system is entirely optional.

Mmm found an interesting news article from Japan about the civilised transport system.

Most trains in Japan have designated “priority seats,” which are intended to be used by the elderly, pregnant women, people with physical impairments or people accompanying small children. In reality, however, able-bodied passengers often use priority seats and are then unwilling or unable to give them up when someone who needs them gets on.

Until I got to that bit I thought the idea was a good one. - a badge for those who can give up their seats. But seems anyone not wearing a badge will be deemed as basically lazy.

www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/27/national/social-issues/train-etiquette-badge/#.Xl9zbZP7S8W

@PurpleDaisies I work across different hospitals and all of them have signs, so I have a skewed view I think. I don’t think I’ve seen signs elsewhere

Bad knees here. Take the lift when I can. However my lovely DH (and now kids as following his example) often get out of lifts and finish their journey on foot if they realise someone with more "need" requires space (judging need is difficult- we do our best)

Often when they do this - others follow their example too.

However is I was alone that day, that would have been no use to you at all!

Lived in Japan. Worked in Japan. Dh is Japanese. Never seen anyone with one of those badges, though I know they exist. People on the tokyo metro etc wont really give up their seats to elderly/pregnant etc. I've seen them do it, but often it's a case of eyes down, "dont notice".

Anyway. Anyone can use the lift. Wait your turn op like everyone else.

such a non issue.

I do a couple of triathlons a year if I can and exercise regularly. I am reasonably fit. I take the lifts when I feel like it, because that's what they are there. For shoppers to use. Any shopper or visitor.

I have not read the entire thread so sorry if I am repeating.

Yes, PP have said everyone has just as much right to use the lift as you. Yes, wait your turn like everyone else, etc. etc. You don't have a 'correct' comeback.

However having the 'right' doesn't mean that an able person should not do the decent thing, stepping aside to let those who have no alternative get first dibs. I'd like to think in that situation, i would have the self awareness to recognise that morally, albeit not actionably (not sure if thats a word!) another persons need trumps my convenience and dare I say, laziness.

My conclusion OP is that YANBU to be silently miffed and frustrated, but there is naff all you can do about it other than despair at the human race and vow to act differently when the situation is reversed.

YouJustDoYou
That's interesting.
It puts another perspective on the claim that in Tokyo everyone suitably disabled wears a badge and follows rules to the point nobody would ever forget their badge, so it's entirely reasonable to get annoyed if you have to wait with a buggy in the event a non-badged person dares use lifts.

However having the 'right' doesn't mean that an able person should not do the decent thing, stepping aside to let those who have no alternative get first dibs.

It honestly wouldn't even occur to me. I wouldn't dream of pushing past someone, it's just not on, but unless someone is clearly struggling to stand up, I think everyone waits their turn. If someone asks, of course I'll let them first. Pushing a buggy is not a valid reason to have priority, but if someone asks, I 'd imagine they are unwell and would let them.

It wouldn't even occur to me not to take the lift. Why on earth wouldn't I.

What is wrong with someone only using a lift for the convenience

Because they stop those who actually need the lift from using it.

And because it would help solve the obesity crisis.

It wouldn't even occur to me not to take the lift. Why on earth wouldn't I

because generally there is a perfectly good staircase? Not always, sometimes they are at the other end of the building and hard to find. DH is on the 7th floor at his office and the stairs are nowhere near the lifts so everyone uses the lift even those only going one floor.

Because they stop those who actually need the lift from using it.

No they don’t. People might have to wait longer.

And because it would help solve the obesity crisis.

Plenty of people using the lifts because they want to are not obese.

Having a pram/baby/buggy doesn’t give you priority over the other lift users whether they be able bodied, disabled, hidden disabled, in a wheelchair or just can’t be bothered to use stairs
If the lift is full wait your turn!
If your child can’t handle being out in these situations don’t put them through it until a bit older

My 25 year old boyfriend looks fine but has snapped tendons in both of his knees and undergone a year of physio for it. Stairs still hurt his knees at the end of a long day. So sometimes we get the lift.

He's not disabled but I'd say his pain is more important than your impatience.

Do fuck off and stop being entitled...

And because it would help solve the obesity crisis.

the obesity crisis is due to people stuffing their face. Climbing a couple of stairs once in a blue moon will make 0 difference, especially if you do it whilst walking your way through a family bag of crisps

Because they stop those who actually need the lift from using it.
it doesn't stop anyone, they just wait as long as the rest of us.

I don't eat standing up in a cafe either, do you? Even if it means someone who needs to sit down won't find a seat because I am on it.

Durex should use this as their promo😂
"Don't wanna keep waiting for lifts?"
Durex🛌