to take my child out in the cold

[tantrumingcoldchild]

Name changed for this!

I was trying to get my 3 year old daughter to nursery by 8 am for breakfast and so that I can get on with a big work project. She had a massive strop because she wanted to have Coco Pops at home. The general tantruming lasted almost an hour.

I finally forced her into her buggy (not something I normally do), but she ripped off her sweatshirt in the process and she was only in her vest. I attempted to put her coat on over her backwards but she angrily flung it off.

Knowing that she would quickly tire of the cold, I started the 7 minute walk to nursery. There was some very light snowy rain, just a few drops here and there. A woman saw me leaving my building with my daughter flailing around and screaming in her vest, and glared at me. She had a child with her.

When I was halfway down the block, the woman came back and asked me angrily if I had seen the weather and what my child was wearing. I explained that she was having a temper tantrum and I needed to work. I said that I was going to put her coat on her when she calmed down.

The woman insisted that this wasn't good enough and continued to berate me, saying it was horrible not to dress my child. I explained that my daughter had taken her clothes off and showed her the sweatshirt and coat which were ready and waiting.

She shouted at me some more and called me a crazy bitch. I asked her what she would do if she were going to get sacked for being late (this is theoretical, as I am not going to get sacked but I do need to work and I want my daughter to understand that there are boundaries and consequences. I let her make me late way too often). She told me that she would rather lose her job than take her child out in the cold and then yelled at me some more. I lost my temper and shouted back at her and she eventually left.

My daughter was quite upset. She asked if the lady was not nice to me. I explained that the woman was angry with me for not making my daughter wear her clothes in the cold. Then my original plan came to fruition: my daughter agreed to put her top and coat on, I hugged her and said I loved her, and we walked to nursery together.

So, was I unreasonable to take my daughter out in a vest when she was having a horrible temper tantrum?

You can say it all you like, but people are free to challenge it and call it ridiculous. And calling it abusive doesn't make it so.

I know! I said I think it, not that you have to think it. You’re not saying I am wrong, or you think I am mistaken; you’re saying it’s unacceptable to say it. Why is it unacceptable just because you don’t agree?

And I am not “admitting” to pinning my 3 year old down. It’s what I do and what I would expect anyone to do, rather than take their small child out in temperatures at or around zero in a vest. She’s 3. I’m the parent. She needs to get dressed. 🤷🏻‍♀️

WaxOnFeckOff

Thanks, I do. She’s not hurt, just clothed. I don’t care about her opinion about clothes, just her safety.

I have a hot blooded, sensory child. It's much easier now he can articulate what he will and won't wear. School have long since accepted that he will happily wear shorts into sub-zero temperatures, and does not wear school jumpers. I've long since accepted that for the majority of activities his risk of hypothermia is pretty darn low. Because I avoid regular petty battles, he now takes me seriously when I do intervene with his sartorial choices.

Two years ago, I was verbally abused and sworn at in the street because a passing skin head took exception to a happy 7 year old wearing shorts in 1oC slush. Maybe the skin head should have worn a snuggly hat like DS

The toddler years were hard going because DS couldn't articulate how he felt about clothes, and he alas wasn't born with SPD or ASD conveniently stamped on his forehead. I fruitlessly tried being dominant. A melting down toddler can shuck off clothes far quicker than a parent can force them on, and we got nowhere with that approach. For everyone's sanity, I went for toting around the extra layers until he looked cold enough to accept them which was less than you'd think.

DS2 was a much easier child, but did have a morning during yR when he flatly refused to get dressed in a timely fashion. DS1 had to be in earlier for a literacy intervention. It was not fair for DS1 and his TAs to miss out due to DS2's stubbourness, so he was warned that if he was not dressed by a certain time, he'd have to get dressed in the playground. 10 minutes later in the playground he discovered that I am a woman of my word. Fortunately it was still the mild end of autumn, and being before normal drop off, no one else was in the playground. The lesson was learned... for a couple of years until he was pratting about about brushing his teeth and his teeth got brushed in front of the head teacher at the school doors at the entrance. She hasn't seen it as an impediment to me volunteering regularly in school, and is probably grateful to have some parents that stick to their boundaries with their children.

Continuing life around a stubborn child and being equipped with what they need even if they refuse it is far different to not providing it.

The OP did get her in clothes, her DD took them off again. There comes to a point where you run out of time and just have to get somewhere.

Her wearing clothes or not is not a safety issue. Ease off the pinning and she'll no doubt start to wear clothes when she feels cold. What you are doing is abusive and is breaking her spirit and will cause mental health issues later on.

I know you think you are being loving and caring, but really you are not. You are causing trauma to a child who is screaming because she is unhappy and she has no control in her life. Is the pinning down working int terms of changing her behaviour? Not really if you are still having to do it, think about that.

I actually do think it's unacceptable in this case because abuse isn't some term to be bandied about whenever you disagree with a parenting decision someone has made. Actual abuse is horrendous, and I do think it's unacceptable to tell someone they are being abusive for something like this. It's an incredibly loaded and serious term, not for use so flippantly, especially on a site where people themselves are survivors of child abuse or have dealt with their own children being abused by other family members.

What you are doing is abusive and is breaking her spirit and will cause mental health issues later on.

😆 As I say, if you ever see me do it, feel free to report me. I know what I would rather discuss with social services.

And there are clearly genuine times when physical intervention and force is appropriate, such as car seats or teeth-brushing or situations where there is an imminent threat to life or wellbeing. But for minor things like this, it's not a safety issue. You don't honestly think that seven minutes going from warm house to warm nursery will actually make a child ill, do you? Do you really, genuinely believe that? Truly?

😆 As I say, if you ever see me do it, feel free to report me. I know what I would rather discuss with social services.

And as I said, I wouldn't hesitate and I can guarantee they'd be more interested in repeated episodes of pinning a child to the floor for a non safety issue than they would be for someone who let their tantrumming child leave the house for a short journey without wearing a jacket.

DesLynamsMoustache

I don’t know it wouldn’t. I know what the standard is for taking children out in temperatures where it’s liable to snow and I know how uncomfortable my own child and I are in such temperatures for any period of time. So as I say, not a risk I am prepared to take. And that’s up to me as a parent. As this course of conduct was up to the OP. I am within my rights to express an opinion on it, though, since she asked.

Oh OP, you must have already been so stressed, and the last thing you needed was that cow sticking her oar in

@mantarays

I wouldn't call your parenting abusive. Imaginary maybe....

bingbangbing

Right...

Then on you crack. I am 100% confident that it’s fine, and wouldn’t need a MN AIBU thread to reassure me that my DD is healthy, happy and full dressed in the snow.

Feel free to pass on your details and I'll happily call it in.

WaxOnFeckOff

PM’d you.

PM’d you.

So you did. But unless your name is Elmo or Big bird, i'm guessing that you don't actually live at 123 Sesame Street.

Anyway, I'm done now - away to decide what I'm making for dinner tonight.

I'll look out for you on the teen boards in about 10 years time.

@WaxOnFeckOff

Paste the PM here?

This is getting better and better

🥮 because I'm bored of popcorn

😂

No, I don’t.

Seriously, though, it’s not very cool to go soliciting people’s personal information so you can make malicious SS reports about people you’ve never met online. I can’t imagine they would look kindly on that.

bingbangbing

And that is doxxing, isn’t it? Trying to get another poster to make public details of who I am and where I live? Shame on you. Luckily I’m not actually stupid enough to PM my name and address to unpleasant posters on a social media site. Which is a lesson I will also teach my lovely DD. Some right cranks out there.

bingbang - that was the PM. 123 Sesame Street.

I didn't solicit the PM as such, you dared me to report you, then said I should and then I said feel free to pass on the details. I didn't ask you to PM me, you chose to.

This is just so bizarre!

Bizarre it is. But I think more because you were willing to make a real life SS call about a person you had exchanged views with online.

You know what, I am sure that your DD is lovely, I also think that you are at heart, a loving and caring parent. I also think though that with all kindness intended here, you are mistaken in that it's better to force a small child by pinning them down on what you seem to be saying is a fairly regular occurance, than it is to allow the to feel the consequences of their actions which in this case is to feel a bit cold for a short time.

We don't all parent the same, but I suggest that it might be worth looking into the damage that breaking a small child's spirit can do and have a think about some other ways that it's possible to parent.

Pinning someone down so they have no control can be terrifying and is far beyond what is reasonable for a non safely related issue.

@mantarays
The fact that you're so confident/arrogant about your parenting style doesn't in any way imply you're actually a better parent than op who actually has the ability to reflect on what she's doing as a parent and improve where possible. That would suggest yo me op is a wonderful parent who reflects on her parenting and adapts it to suit her particular child, without putting her ego in front of her child's well being.

For lots of kids with sensory issues (and you wouldn't know yet) your style of parenting would cause severe anxiety in a child, maybe for your child it's fine, but it's very obviously ridiculous for you to preach that it's the best course of action for all children.

It's also massively silly that you're so overly zealously concerned about a child being underdressed on a cold day for 2 minutes ehich will not cause any problems but are completely unmoved by using what would have to sometimes be extreme force on a child to force their clothes to stay on. Especially when what you suggest goes against all expert advice.