To finally evict my lodger, even though she will end up homelss

[Throwawaytheatre]

Hi all,

Posting more for advice, but a little bit of aibu too...

Currently lying awake with worry and anxiety despite having to be up for work in less than four hours.

I’ve posted about my lodger before. She’s an old friend of mine and things started well. However; the past few months have been hard work. The first issue I had with her was when she had her partner at the time stay over. I told her I didn’t want men I didn’t know in the house and her partner in particular made me very uncomfortable. She had him stay over anyway and then after I had a chat with her to let her know how this made me feel, she had him over till one in the morning about a month ago.

She has since broken up with him, and this evening went on a date with a man she met online. She does not know this man at all and he is in his 30s (we are both 20s). She then brought him home and woke me up by having very loud sex. I have been unable to fall back asleep as I have been quite anxious about having a strange man she’s known for a few hours in the house. He could be anyone for all I know.

Just before Xmas she quit her job as she couldn’t hack doing nights anymore. She is now on UC; and is behind on rent. Our agreement says rent is weekly but she pays monthly in arrears if you see what I mean? She missed the Jan payment and has told me she will be unable to pay any extra this month (so assuming she pays be next week as normal she will still be four weeks behind ifyswim?) - I will add she always seems to have money for tobacco but that’s by-the-by I suppose.

As she is not working she has the heating on all day and my last gas bill was over £100.

The main reason I want to end the agreement is because she obviously doesn’t respect that this is my home and property and doesn’t respect that I don’t want strange men in it! However, I wonder if I would be better off making the arrears the “official” reason?

Do I have to give her a months notice or just a week - the agreement is weekly rent (in writing) but as I say she pays monthly.

The only thing is if I evicted her, she would have no where to go; she has no family local apart from her mum and the whole reason she ended up here is cos her mum threw her out. But I can’t keep living like this!

Thanks.

And as I keep pointing out that I am not talking about the law relating to landlords and tenants

Then why reference your experience as a landlord, Woodchuck?

Once a lodger isn't paying rent, any right to reasonable notice diminishes to the time needed to find a safe alternative, which in effect can be a few hours given the existence of hotels etc. Otherwise you are forcing a duty to provide free lodging onto property owners for which there is no authority in law.

OP, how did it go last night?

Better do Airbnb OP. Guests have to agree to your house rules before they book.

Normally Airbnb say hosts have give 24 hours notice to go. However, you can just say you feel threatened and they will advise guests they have to leave immediately.

Someone I know who uses anxiety as her excuse, started to be rude and aggressive as usual. The host asked her to go straight away and Airbnb backed her. When she wouldn’t leave the property, she was physically ejected by the host who had called in backup. And she didn’t get a refund.

You don’t have to put up with shit and being made feel uncomfortable in your own home.

Then why reference your experience as a landlord, Woodchuck?

Because I was a landlord with lodgers i.e. I used to rent out rooms in the house that I was living in.

Once a lodger isn't paying rent, any right to reasonable notice diminishes to the time needed to find a safe alternative, which in effect can be a few hours given the existence of hotels etc.

There is no law stating that someone is no longer a lodger if they are behind on the rent unless you know something I don't. If so please link to it. Otherwise I will assume just making it up .

Otherwise you are forcing a duty to provide free lodging onto property owners for which there is no authority in law.

No because she has every right to evict her and can sue her for the rent owed. She just can't force a to leave immediately with no notice i.e. if the lodger doesn't go voluntarily immediately she's not going get any help from the police.

She just can't force a to leave immediately with no notice i.e. if the lodger doesn't go voluntarily immediately she's not going get any help from the police.

Despite a police officer commenting to the contrary just a few posts up!

The police, if OP needed to call them, would be obliged to remove an unwelcome person who refused to leave. Unless said person had a mortgage statement, assured shorthold tenancy agreement or rent book proving their right to be there, the police would have to remove them.

She does have an agreement demonstrating that she is a lodger. I'm sure police would help to remove her if she has received written notice and hasn't left in time. However, it wouldn't be considered reasonable for a landlord to try to get out a lodger that day so unless there's a violent argument why would they rush around?. As someone else has pointed out they don't move too fast if you have squatters. They haven't got enough staff to deal with actual crime let alone landlord/ lodger disputes. I'm not saying they wouldn't help eventually but it's not something they are going to prioritise.

@Throwawaytheatre - how did your conversation go last night? Has your 'lodger' aka CF moved out?

There is no law stating that someone is no longer a lodger if they are behind on the rent unless you know something I don't. As has been linked to , explained and explained again... a lodger can be asked to leave for ANY reason their landlord deems reasonable in a time frame also decidwed by the landlord. The suggestions, like yours, that a week seems reasonable is just that seemingly reasonable not a legal requirement. As justcly explains, their is no case law - I explained why that is the case yesterday!

If so please link to it. Otherwise I will assume just making it up Again I refer you to justcly and the fact that you are asking for evidence that does not exist, for reasons that have been explained a few times.

Reasonable can be any time period depending upon the situation. If a landlord feels threatened then with immediate effect is emminently reasonable; if they just want the room back then a week, a month a year, whatever fits their situation is also entirely reasonable.

In OPs case she could decide that strangers in her house is enough, she feels it is encroaching, endangering her. It has nothing to do woth any agreement they may or may not have. And yes, she could call the police. She may have problems if they choose not to act because the lodger makes up a plausible story (she has been buying food for them both is enough, in law), they won't assist in an illegal eviction, or one that has any chance of being illegal. But OP has every right to ask for an unwanted person to be removed from her house. As do you and anyone else!

That is how it is. That is what the current lack of precedent, case law, means for lodgers. And, given the emminently sensible reasons for the lack of case law, it is unlikely to change!

I hope you're ok op? Stay strong and don't let her talk you into anything. She is taking the piss and can go back to her mum's so she won't be homeless.

Again I refer you to justcly and the fact that you are asking for evidence that does not exist, for reasons that have been explained a few times.

And I will refer you to the post that shows the police aren't even interested in squatters. I agree they will help remove a lodger who hasn't left despite receiving written notice but I think there is a fat chance that they will rush around the moment and landlord decides they want their lodger to leave. Where I live they don't rush around when you been burgled and certainly not when there are squatters.

Hope OP is ok and managed to get her out without too much hassle.

So much misinformation on this thread.

" A lodger has no status in law"

Yes they do. The legal status of a lodger is an "excluded occuper" and they have very minimal rights including the right to reasonable notice (as has already been discussed at length on this thread).

And I will refer you to the post that shows the police aren't even interested in squatters. Different circumstances, different laws! And I haven't claimed the police would react to a request, unless it were about an ongoing violent attack!

But you keep skittering way from the heart of the disagreement you have set up. Distracting with irrelevancies. As has been explained a lot of times.... a lodger has very few rights in law and the term reasonable can be precisely what the landlord decides it is!

Please just accept that now case law means nobody can post to the proof you want. What there is has been linked to a few tomes here. It is vague for some very good reasons... and is likely to stay that way for the same reasons!

But you keep skittering way from the heart of the disagreement you have set up. Distracting with irrelevancies. As has been explained a lot of times.... a lodger has very few rights in law and the term reasonable can be precisely what the landlord decides it is!

I'm not distracting with irrelevancies which are that the lodger has the right to reasonable notice and it is unlikely that reasonable will be defined as that same day. The landlord could decide what is reasonable if they have put it in writing but otherwise it is usually a week. She can't force the lodger out physically so she won't be voluntarily she can't actually get out on the same day without the help of the police. I'm not convinced at all that she would get any help given that this is a lodger with a contract and she hasn't actually given any notice.

justcly it is not the police’s job to remove a lodger who won’t leave. The police deal with criminal offences and breach of the peace. They aren’t “muscle” to help you enforce your civil rights

But if a lodger does cause a Section 5 breach of the peace then the police can and will remove that person.

The OP mentioned giving notice but lodgers have very few rights compared to tenants who are normally well protected (imo as a landlord). No idea why woodchuck keeps arguing in the face of the actual law.

Please just accept that now case law means nobody can post to the proof you want. What there is has been linked to a few tomes here. It is vague for some very good reasons... and is likely to stay that way for the same reasons!

Why does case law mean nobody can post any evidence that a lodger is no longer is a lodger if they are behind on their rent or that police will evict a lodger the moment the landlord decides they want them to go? If people aren't basing their assertions on evidence what are they basing them on?

No idea why woodchuck keeps arguing in the face of the actual law.

I not arguing in the face of the "actual law". Nowhere have disagreed that lodgers have few rights compared with tenants. I have disagreed that practically they can be thrown out without reasonable notice which would be about a week.

Anyway I'm not going to post any more and will hide the thread because because it is going around in circles. OP hasn't come back to say what she has done but it seems likely that she has given a week's notice because she knows what she's doing unlike many of the posters on here who just want drama and will just post to "place mark"

One more time before I go and walk the dog!

I'm not distracting with irrelevancies which are that the lodger has the right to reasonable notice and it is unlikely that reasonable will be defined as that same day. Defined by whom? The landlord is usually the one doing the defingin, at the time

The landlord could decide what is reasonable if they have put it in writing but otherwise it is usually a week. That is your opinion based on what usually happens in normal circumsatnces

She can't force the lodger out physically so she won't be voluntarily she can't actually get out on the same day without the help of the police. I'm not convinced at all that she would get any help given that this is a lodger with a contract and she hasn't actually given any notice. She has given notice... she is not trying to get her out the same day.. though she probably could if she had a freind with her and felt threatened by the unwanted male guest the lodger had in her room... coulda woulda shoulda al variations that have not happened.

Why does case law mean nobody can post any evidence that a lodger is no longer is a lodger if they are behind on their rent or that police will evict a lodger the moment the landlord decides they want them to go? I think maybe you are misunderstanding. Case law sets a legal precedant that others can rely on in a court. Without it words like "reasonable" allow a lot of leeway.

Police will not evict.. as I and others have explained. They have to be careful to avoid assisting a self eviction, so are loathe to get involved... lodgers can come up with plausible reasons to gve pause (as I have explained), but they can remove an unwanted lodger, inlaw! But police will come to a report of violence. breach of the peace etc.

If people aren't basing their assertions on evidence what are they basing them on? ????? Based on what happens in real life. Based on what happens within the law. That is why I think you are misunderstanding. There are laws, they are vague, as all laws are until they are refined by trial, jury, judicial review etc... Case Law is one case in point... a real case adds to the interpretation, modifying the original law.

In this case there has been very little legal challenge for a great many reasons, not least of which we are talking about people being able to have unwanted visitors removed from their homes. As I said yesterday, look at the recent rise in cuckooing, think about how to get rid of a violent partner etc. The laws have to favour the legal occupent... landlord, homeowner, person named on a lease.

Not your problem - kick her out ASAP

You know what I wish? I wish people would stop arguing and we could just find out if Op is OK. Regardless of what she decided to do and the rights and wrongs of it.

And GreenLeaf RTFT

You know what I wish? I wish people would stop arguing and we could just find out if Op is OK. Regardless of what she decided to do and the rights and wrongs of it. Wish away. But you can't force OP to come back and give you an update ... that's another kind of intrusion/nosiness!

And MN is here for debate, support, info sharing...

Ugh is this one of them posts when she talks about kicking out her bff, tells her she needs to talk over text, then gets home all too nicey nicey, has some wine and listens to her bff tell a sob story and lets her stay. Therefore OP won’t be back to update because she can’t find the heart to tell us she’s given into her rude, tacky lodger.

Anyway I'm not going to post any more and will hide the thread because because it is going around in circles.

I thought you might be mathanxiety after a name change, but now that you've said that, I know you aren't.