To finally evict my lodger, even though she will end up homelss

[Throwawaytheatre]

Hi all,

Posting more for advice, but a little bit of aibu too...

Currently lying awake with worry and anxiety despite having to be up for work in less than four hours.

I’ve posted about my lodger before. She’s an old friend of mine and things started well. However; the past few months have been hard work. The first issue I had with her was when she had her partner at the time stay over. I told her I didn’t want men I didn’t know in the house and her partner in particular made me very uncomfortable. She had him stay over anyway and then after I had a chat with her to let her know how this made me feel, she had him over till one in the morning about a month ago.

She has since broken up with him, and this evening went on a date with a man she met online. She does not know this man at all and he is in his 30s (we are both 20s). She then brought him home and woke me up by having very loud sex. I have been unable to fall back asleep as I have been quite anxious about having a strange man she’s known for a few hours in the house. He could be anyone for all I know.

Just before Xmas she quit her job as she couldn’t hack doing nights anymore. She is now on UC; and is behind on rent. Our agreement says rent is weekly but she pays monthly in arrears if you see what I mean? She missed the Jan payment and has told me she will be unable to pay any extra this month (so assuming she pays be next week as normal she will still be four weeks behind ifyswim?) - I will add she always seems to have money for tobacco but that’s by-the-by I suppose.

As she is not working she has the heating on all day and my last gas bill was over £100.

The main reason I want to end the agreement is because she obviously doesn’t respect that this is my home and property and doesn’t respect that I don’t want strange men in it! However, I wonder if I would be better off making the arrears the “official” reason?

Do I have to give her a months notice or just a week - the agreement is weekly rent (in writing) but as I say she pays monthly.

The only thing is if I evicted her, she would have no where to go; she has no family local apart from her mum and the whole reason she ended up here is cos her mum threw her out. But I can’t keep living like this!

Thanks.

I’m amazed you think it’s reasonable to expect a lodger to be celibate.

I appreciate this person is lodger rather than a tenant but the same rule applies unless there is a law I don't know about
The lodger is an excluded occupier. The 'same rules' do not apply. That's what excluded occupier means.

Woodchuck you don't know what you're talking about.

So please educate me e.g. link to something stating that a lodger doesn't have to be given reasonable notice and can be thrown out that night if they owe rent.

I’m amazed you think it’s reasonable to expect a lodger to be celibate.
I would expect a lodger to abide by house rules. If a house rule is 'no overnight visitors' they should conform. They don't need to 'be celibate'. They can go and have sex elsewhere.
However, these things should always, IMO, be made very clear from the outset.

The lodger is an excluded occupier. The 'same rules' do not apply. That's what excluded occupier means.

The same rules apply with regard to the landlord has to go through the process they would normally go through to evict them whether not they have paid rent. In the case of lodgers that would mean they still have to be given reasonable notice. Obviously if you know better please post the link.

@Fedupofdoingit @Woodchuck isn't right. Lodgers really have no protection at all in law. They are supposed to be given 'reasonable' notice, but 'reasonable' isn't defined anywhere and can be absolutely anything in practice. So a day, two days, a week - all perfectly 'reasonable'.

I’m amazed you think it’s reasonable to expect a lodger to be celibate.
Why do some people proceed direct to the most stupid possible interpretation of things?

The basic disgreement here seem to be what is meant by "reasonable notice".

That, with lodgers, os usually based entirely on the specific circumsatces, as there is not precise period of time in any statute for lodgers. Mainly because they share space in your home and if, for example, they do something to make you feel endangered, you have every right to put them out with immediate effect.

In OPs case giving her stbx friend until the weekend is a reasonable time, as is 48 hours (which is the minimum going by general rule of thumb, not law). If she brings the same or a different man home tonight then immediately would notbe an over reaction given what has gone before.

OP can also change the locks... but again it would be more reasonable to do that at, say, 11.30 Sunday morning!

OP need to nothing about what her lodger does with regards finding a new home, taking away her possessions etc. She just issues a deadline, no reasons necessary, and changes the locks when that deadline expires.

That's it, in the absence of anything odd, other than excluded tenant, etc!

Lodgers really have no protection at all in law. They are supposed to be given 'reasonable' notice, but 'reasonable' isn't defined anywhere and can be absolutely anything in practice. So a day, two days, a week - all perfectly 'reasonable'.

I appreciate that reasonable isn't defined in law. However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night.

Tell her you’ll think about keeping her on if she pays the owed money.

When she pays up tell her you have thought about it & the answer is still no.

no wood you're wrong.

CF has ignored the agreement put in place to keep a roof over her own head and ceased to pay for the use of the house so has tacitly voided her status as a lodger. The OP hasn't done this, CF has done it to herself. She has no claim to the OPs house and no right to be admitted. She has a right to her property not being sold/damaged but that's all. Been there, done that.

The OP certainly can change the locks and say who is/isn't allowed in her house.

@woodchuck99 it would never get before a judge. It's perfectly possible to argue anything is reasonable, particularly if she's not paying.

I’m amazed you think it’s reasonable to expect a lodger to be celibate. Try being a single female with a lodger. You will choose the safest, quietest, tidiest person you can find. Anything else is to cause yourself hardship, put yourelf in danger. Almost ALL lodgers have very, very restrictive terms, including not being able to lock their own bedroom door!

Anybody who chooses to lodge does so for very specific reasons, like Mon - Fri work patterns, living with freinds etc. But Rent My Room style living is weighed well on the side of the home owner.

You only have to look at the recent rise in cukooing to see why nobody wants to change that!

www.gov.uk/rent-room-in-your-home/ending-a-letting

As stated here reasonable would usually be a weeks notice if rent is paid weekly. No mention anywhere that if the lodger owes rent it is reasonable to throw them out that night.

'Reasonable notice' is open to interpretation and is not written in law. The house owner can tell the lodger to leave right now if she wishes. Someone has broken their agreement and it isn't the OP. The Lodger has ignored previous requests not to bring men home.
So why don't you post a link showing where 'reasonable notice' is defined?

However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night.
You really think think this would get to court 😂 Woodchuck99 are you the lodger?

I appreciate that reasonable isn't defined in law. However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night.
Let the lodger take the OP to court then!

I appreciate that reasonable isn't defined in law. However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night.
She's already been asked not to bring unknown men home. She hasn't paid rent since December. She's told the OP (in 'writing', no less!) that 'what I do in my room is my business' ie has explicitly refused to comply with her landlady's request.
I can't imagine a judge being that sympathetic.

I appreciate that reasonable isn't defined in law. However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night. As has been said, the chances of it getting time in a court are practically nil. The only reason that might happen is if OP were to destry her lodger's possessions, they get into a fight and the police are called (and the lodger would be escorted off the premises at that time).

The lodger needs to shut up and start packing. She has forgotten why she is living where she is and has forgotten her true circumstances.

OP only needs to set a day and time...

So why don't you post a link showing where 'reasonable notice' is defined?

See above. OP could ask her to leave tonight but if she refuses to go how she can get her out? Police won't help her if she has barely given any notice. People love to cause drama on these threads but in reality a big fallout is not going to help OP.

My now long dead DGM had awful problems many years ago with a tenant that didn't pay her rent. She made some obvious mistakes: took her on over a cuppa with no references, assumed her employment was more stable than it was (the woman said she was a 'nurse' when in fact she was a night carer with an agency who only got occasional jobs) and got too friendly so it was more difficult to put boundaries in when the rent didn't get paid. Oh, and she allowed payment in cash. Even in the 90s that was . My parents had to intervene to sort out the mess. The next tenant was, of all things, an actress, and she was far more reliable.

OP, where rooms and letting are concerned you must stay detached and professional. You need a contract, you need references and you need a deposit. (Unless you're illegally subletting, in which case you deserve a lot of what you get). So many people rent out rooms with no idea what they're getting into.

I appreciate that reasonable isn't defined in law. However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night. again, wrong.

A judge would follow the law. That's all.

They might take into account the rental arrears and the householder's reasonable offer of terms which have again been broken, the breaking of contract pertaining to house guests and that the householder felt threatened, that the householder attempted to discuss the issues with the CF and was further resisted, when balancing it against 'reasonable notice' of, say, 20 minutes.

However that doesn't mean a judge would consider it reasonable for her to be thrown out that night

I doubt a judge would consider not paying rent and bringing back random blokes from the internet as reasonable either.

When push comes to shove, what will the CF actually do? Shout abuse? Get the police? (Hahahahahaha)

By the time she's gone to court she'd have had to find somewhere else anyway.

@woodchuck99 have a loik for what the various agencies say if a landlord feels threatened by their lodger, lodger's guests etc.

If OP chooses that route there would be little her lodger can do!

Of course her lodgre can alos try to muddy the waters, say she was house sitting, paid towards bills, food etc. But it sounds as though OP might have angle covered...

I'm glad you're kicking her out OP. She's a cheeky bitch.