Is my sister unreasonable?

[newyorkcheeseecake]

A man who I grew up with suddenly passed away at the beginning of the year. My older sister is best friends with said mans sister. He was only in his early 30’s and as a result didn’t have any life insurance. His family aren’t high earners so were understandably worried about how they were going to pay for the funeral. My sister (which I thought was a lovely idea) decided to start a fundraiser on Facebook so that people could donate money towards the cost of his funeral if they wanted to. A lot of friends and people of the community donated including myself, although I only donated £30 as that’s all I could afford. He was a very popular and much loved man and they raised just over 6k in total which covered all of it.

The family were very grateful for the help and he had a lovely send off. My sister, for some reason struggled to get the money at first as it took over two weeks for it to go into her account (not sure why Facebook held onto it but she managed to sort it in the end). The money all went into different bank accounts including her personal account, savings account, isa account and our dads account. She gathered all the money together and gave it to the family. They took just over 5k off her and said that’s all they needed and told her she could keep the rest as a thank you which was around £700-800 give or take. She’s put it into her savings account.

I went to visit her yesterday for a quick catch up and the conversation came up as I asked if she had sorted out the money yet and she told me all of this. AIBU to think this is just wrong? I appreciate she didn’t ask for the money and the family offered it to her but I find it awful that people have donated their hard earned cash (including myself) probably when they were all skint themselves and she’s kept some of it. I’m sure people will call me jealous which is absolutely not the case, I love my sister and I think what she did was lovely and very thoughtful but I just don’t agree with it. It feels really wrong to me that she has benefitted from other people’s money and I think giving it to a charity would have been better personally or maybe organising some sort of gathering/party in our friends name.

As far as I know she has only told me about this and I wonder if it’s because she knows people wouldn’t be very happy about it. It really has made me think twice about donating to these sorts of fundraisers now.

What do you guys think?

@WarwickLife there is nothing fraudulent about it. It was raised for the purpose that it was used for. The remainder was the bereaved family's responsibility and they chose to gift it to the OP's sister.

There was no intention to raise more than was eventually used for the funeral. No-one knew how much would be needed. There was no fraudulent intent.

I bet not a single one of the donors would have sanctioned this had they known that the best part of £1000 would go into her own pockets.

This is exactly why so many people get angry at the big charities squandering donated money on excessive salaries, posh central London offices, glossy self-promotional literature and protracted self-important willy-waving legal battles - they have lost track of where the money has come from in the first place.

If you're running a legitimate business, selling goods or services that people can freely choose to buy from you or not, there's no issue with balancing your income and outgoings and managing your healthy profit margin; but you cannot expect to run a lucrative business funded by begging people to donate to a good cause, which subsequently receives far less of the money given than it could otherwise have done.

As OP has said, many people give sacrificially to charity. It's not just a spare £30 that was burning a hole, but one they really could have done with themselves - but they figure that somebody else's need is greater than their own, so they give it willingly.

Make my torn, ragged old coat last another month or two and give the money I would have spent on it to help a desperate bereaved family = acceptable.

Make my torn, ragged old coat last another month or two and give the money I would have spent on it to somebody as a windfall that she can pop in her ISA along with everybody else's sacrificially-given £30s until she decides what treat she'd like to buy = utterly 100% unacceptable.

The surplus money should either go back to the family or to a relevant charity. Despite the family's wishes, DSis should not personally profit from the surplus.

Charities have strict rules on fundraising and purpose.
If I get my brownies bag packing in a shop towards a particular camp, that's what the money raised has to go on, as close as possible. Any surplus can't go to the leaders personal funds! It could be redirected to something related to that camp e.g. a piece of equipment that would facilitate it. The money has been given in good faith and must be purposed towards it as charitably and close to the original purpose as possible.

Although this is not a formal charity, the spirit of the giving must remain as close to it as possible.

Yes, many major charities have CEOs with £££,£££ salaries. That information is publicly avaliable so the public can decide if that is a justifiable cost of running that scale of organusation, or donate elsewhere.

@saraclara but the fraudulent act is in what the DSis chooses to do with the money they have passed to her. If she keeps it for her own profit this is vastly different to what was in the fundraiser page description. Therefore, according to the platforms own regulations, it's fraudulent.

@Saraclara You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, it doesn't make it true. And not knowing the law isn't a defence for breaking it. You would still be punished in exactly the same way.

There is no mystery in arranging a funeral. You speak to the undertakers and they are very upfront about what the fees will be. Of course the family will have made these arrangements, but presumably they knew about the fundraiser. So OP's sister could have asked them how much they needed without being intrusive, then once they had enough to cover it, stopped the fundraiser.

If she knowingly allowed it to continue once they had gathered enough money, unless she specifically said she'd be keeping any surplus, she is breaking the law. If nothing was said about what would happen with any surplus, a natural assumption may be that it would go to the deceased's family. But if nothing was said about what would happen to any surplus, it should be returned to the donees.

*donors!!!

@Saraclara You can keep saying the same thing over and over again, it doesn't make it true.

In this case it does. The money was raised for the family. The moment it was given to them, it became theirs. That was the end of any action of the sister's that could legally involve her.

The gift was then the family's to give.
Whether or not you're comfortable with her accepting the gift, it still isn't fraud.

From OP's original post:

...to start a fundraiser on Facebook so that people could donate money towards the cost of his funeral if they wanted to

Where does it say it was a gift for his family?

The money was given for a specific purpose. A considerable proportion hasn't been used for that purpose. It is fraud.

If you start a fundraiser, you become a legal trustee, and have legal responsibilities. If you break them, there are criminal sanctions. OP is right to be concerned.

I'm with the majority here, that your sister is wrong to keep the money.

That's not to say she is evil, or a thief. She probably hasn't thought it through the way the family haven't thought it through. They offered the money as a gift and she accepted.

However, the key thing here is about the intention of the donations. Yes the family might be happy for her to have the money, but they are not thinking (understandably, given the circumstances!) about the donors.

I'm sure the donors wouldn't mind if the family had kept the money to help with other expenses or some other kind of memorial - as that would be still within the spirit of the donation.

But people donated towards a cause, and as such it's totally inappropriate for your sister to keep any profits - people would be furious if they found out. I would agree either with the suggestion of dividing the excess amongst the donors evenly, or giving it to a charity/putting it towards a memorial bench or similar. It would be something I would suggest she discusses with the family (at an appropriate time), and maybe lets people know that there was some excess and it's being determined how to best use it in a way to honour their friend.

On a broader note, this type of example is exactly why I generally do not support crowdfunding. There is no regulation for how the money is used, unlike with a registered charity where they have to be very transparent about their activities. I've heard about other examples previously when money was raised for a specific issue, and the beneficiaries have decided they can spend the excess on whatever they want to enhance their lives, completely against the spirit of the giving. It's wrong in my opinion.

I simply cannot, for one minute, imagine being in your sister’s position and when told to keep the money not saying, “oh no, I couldn’t possibly do that. If you really don’t need it I’ll give it to xxx charity”. In her
position I’d be horrified at the thought of keeping it, no matter who said so. I’d be sending it off to whatever charity as quickly as I could.

Apologies for the late response. I've been in work all day and only just checked my phone properly.

I just want to make it clear that I don't believe my sister set up the fundraiser to gain anything or be deceitful. I 100% believe that she gave all the money to the family as the amount raised was published on the fundraiser page so it would have been very difficult for her to keep some of it without the family knowing. I do honestly think that the family just gave her the rest back as a thank you, after all it was a lovely idea that she came up with all by herself.

But ....

It was other people's money and I don't believe the majority of people who donated, would have if they had known my sister would pocket some. After all she doesn't need that money and like a lot of the pp have mentioned above many people (including myself) will have gone without £10, £20, £30 because we wanted to try and help this family and make their lives a bit easier during this awful time.

I think it's silly to say "don't donate money you'll miss or need" as he was a lovely man and we wanted to give him a great send off. But we also didn't know some of the donations would go to a third party either.

It has definitely made me think twice about donating to one of these fundraisers again.

Also to a pp who asked - yes the money goes directly into the bank account of the person who set up the fundraiser, not the person who it is intended for. That person should then forward the money on but we all know that doesn't always happen. That's why there are so many scams and I'm not sure how Facebook is suppose to verify it in all honestly or at least ensure it reaches the person who the money was intended for.

I don't understand why anyone would think it's ok for her to keep that money. You'd make a donation to something linked to the deceased or valued by them, surely. I'm genuinely astonished that she is happy to keep it, doesn't she feel scummy?

The issue of donating to a charity account has been exaggerated by some posters. I think it is unlikely that people who donate to this kind of thing are absolutely determined that every penny that they donate must be spent on exactly what they have been asked for.
If their donation contributes to, say, a holiday to help the Family get over their loss (or even a new sofa), I think few donators would "ask for a proportion of their money back".
The real question is exactly what the grieving family has chosen to spend the surplus on.
If the grieving family has made a choice which is not generally popular, then I am afraid that is their problem, and not anybody else's.
So.……..any suggestion that the OP's sister has done anything unlawful or wrong, is just not a possibility. The suggestions from some posters about "Fraud" and so on are completely off the point.
But, obviously, not being "Unlawful or wrong" is not the whole issue-the OP's sister has a serious problem about her reputation and her choices.
Fortunately, she has a little time to rectify this. There have been many sensible points of advice on this thread. She would be wise to think about them.

Yanbu-
I think you need to have a serious talk with her and if she refuses to return the money to the family or donate it to charity then threaten her with public exposure.

My view is coloured by my opinion that the giver does have a right to decide what happens to money given as they may not have given otherwise.

Your sister is committing fraud if she keeps that money. Perhaps legally she could argue the family gifted it to her but morally it is fraud

If word gets out (and it will) then she will receive huge amounts of hate and abuse

She needs to give it to the family in its entirety ASAP. What they do with it is up to them but they can’t give it to her.

It is fraud.
She is responsible for complying with the plethora of legal requirements surrounding charitable collections. She knows the origin of the money just as if it were stolen or fenced.

@newyorkcheeseecake so what happened? Did she give it back?