To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

People’s homes should be used to finance their care- if their relatives would prefer the inheritance they can look after them!

I agree with this however, there needs to be more support for carers, carers allowance need to be more, grants to adapt homes need to be more readily avaible and respite needs to be easier to access.

If we supported people more I think people would be happy to care for their parents, but as most people have said, at the moment they can't afford to quit work or adapt their home.

A lot of people in nursing homes are hoisted and doubly incontinent

Exactly. Someone said further up that Pakistani elderly people don't end up in care homes. So how do they avoid advanced dementia and complex needs as mentioned above? I know they tend to have slightly larger families who tend to live close by, but you'd still be hard pushed to cater for those needs at home.

I agree with the pp who sad that if you get cancer your care is funded. Why should dementia or Parkinsons be treated differently?

Yes, that's how I feel. Why does the state protect an inheritance that is in property differently to other inheritances? It doesn't, you need to sell your home to pay for care unless your income/investments can cover the cost.

It's harder these days than it used to be. It almost always fell to the daughter/woman who quite possibly didnt't work anyway and her children had left home, so after a period of freedom, her caring duties transferred from her children to her parents or sometimes PILs.

These days women want or just need to work, plus they are having their children later and later and their elderly parents are living longer, so the whole thing has shifted on its axis.

People have jobs, which they need to survive. How would that work exactly?

forcing them to sell their properties to pay for their care is inherently discriminatory against those who have dementia
Life is a lottery. Lots of people have health conditions that result in them being unable to work so they end up out of pocket. Lots of people have illnesses that cost them money - extra prescription charges, free-from food, skin treatments, or other special products they need. An extra tenner a week is easily £20-30k over a lifetime. If you’re unlucky enough to need something you have to pay for it.

The problem arises when two people need the same thing (eg care) but one has to pay while the other has no money so gets it for free. That’s unfair. Either everybody should pay or nobody should.

Your house already has to be sold if you go into residential care.
That has been the case for many years.
The problem arises because too many elderly people do not own their own homes, and do not have any savings, and consequently the state has to pay.
The unfairness is that if you are paying from the sale of your home, you actually pay MORE than those directly funded by the state.
This is perfectly legal and arises (apparently), because the local authority sets a cap on how much they will pay, and apparently residential homes only manage to pay by cross subsidising those, with those who have had to sell their homes.

OP, what would you suggest for a person in my position then? I do not own property, have no children, parents or siblings, married a few years ago. My husband has children and grandchildren. Who is going to pay to look after me? Are you suggesting he should sell his (and it is his) house to pay for my care?

The social problem is not people living longer; it's people living longer with very little mental or physical function.

Exactly. We've learnt to prolong the act of a slow death, not prolong a healthy life.

I do not see how it is the government's job to care for our parents. Like all the other benefits we get, if you can afford it, you pay and the government supports those who cannot. I heard someone on a phone in this week railing at the government for the paltry amount he was given to look after his mother and saying he should be paid an hourly rate, but why it's it a government responsibility? My mother cared for her great aunt and mother in law. It was hard on her and because of that she says we must put her in a home but I would care for my parents at home as long as it was possible to do so. I might have careers coming in and respite breaks etc but until they were unsafe and unmanageable I would want to care for them. I would not see them as anyone elses responsibility.

Subsidised rates or interest free loans for (posh)sheds in the garden.

Daft as anything - keeping the grandparents down the garden in a bespoke eco pod could also help slash childcare costs ...

Living wills and euthanasia should be debated a lot more vigorously in parliament. I know you can have a living will , but how much would be carried out once you lose capacity?
I would rather die than be a burden to my children. To go to Switzerland costs a fortune though! It's not cheap and there are a lot of hoops to jump through as well.
I'm sure that a dignatase ( however you spell it) clinic would do well in the UK as many people feel this way about choice over our own deaths , but governments always vote against it and it's rarely debated or even addressed.
This is important and nobody seems to want to address it properly or bring in laws so euthanasia can be given to people safely and when they are ready to die.
I feel so strongly about this! For myself but I can't speak for others but I know many who do agree with me. You don't let animals suffer so why should humans?

I will absolutely let me mother move in when she gets really old.

It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care

lol- this is whats happening right now! Are people not aware that if you move into a care home social services will use your house to pay for it? If you dont own a house and have no savings then they pay for it. But people ARE having to sell their houses to pay for care homes, its happening now.

Why is everyone being so op-faced in here? When I'm old I want a corner to be found for me and I want to be with my family, not in a bloody home.

And my children feel the same. A good parent, good children - we work together. I give them my all. And they appreciate that and love me to bits. To be honest I'd trust them 110% with my care and whatever they decide. They are, after all, a version of me.

Until there’s a compulsory ‘work for the dole’ scheme in place, suggesting those who’ve worked all their lives forfeit their hard earned assets while we have people who’ve claimed benefits for decades for no good reason* receiving free care is definitely political suicide. There’s a sector of society who have their hands permanently out, while another sector of society has their wallet emptied to pay for them.

Excluding those who are disabled or who are caregivers

So po-faced, I meant!

I heard someone on a phone in this week railing at the government for the paltry amount he was given to look after his mother and saying he should be paid an hourly rate, but why it's it a government responsibility?

Because if you need to care for someone you also need to be able to live. If you can't work and provide an income for yourself because you need to provide care for someone else, how do you put food on your own table and a roof over your own head?

*The social problem is not people living longer; it's people living longer with very little mental or physical function.

Exactly. We've learnt to prolong the act of a slow death, not prolong a healthy life*

SPOT ON. People are living longer but they are living longer with chronic debilitating diseases and illnesses like dementia which means they are reliant on care and have very poor quality of life at the same time. This is a huge time bomb waiting to explode and the NHS and SS will collapse under the strain of this if nothing is done. Care homes cost approx 1k per week. Theres no way any government could afford to pay for everyone's care - we would go bankrupt.

There are four homes in my cul de sac that have carers, one three times a day. Their children are abroad or far flung in the UK, still working. Their homes are there as an asset to be used when necessary.

I often had this conversation with my dm who is in her 70s.

I don't think savings should be used to cover care fees, as people have made a conscious decision not to spend all their wages and decided to save for a rainy day and shouldn't be penalised for that.

But I do think equity in the houses should be used to cover care fees. Many of the elderly generation,who are homeowners, have large equity from house prices rocketing. Buying houses for 4/ 5 grand and now worth 200k etc. So a percentage of this money should be used for care fees.

I dont think it's practical for the kids to always look after elderly when many have all children working full time or have parental responsibilities. Also having a spare room or do families move their elderly parents from their home/ part of the country to move to be with their children. Or do the children and families move.

So how do they avoid advanced dementia and complex needs as mentioned above

They don’t avoid it. Some poor female member of the family gets to clean up the shit.

I am NC with my parents due to abuse so I will not in any way shape or form be doing any caring for them and I care not about any possible inheritance.

IL's have already expressed a desire for me to provide care for them and were most shocked when I said that if anyone was doing any care for them it would be their son, my DH.
DH did tell them that it would be highly unlikely that we could afford for him (or I) to go either part time or give up work to do so. IL's can afford care but won't want to pay out for it which is obviously their choice but they now know we will not be doing any major caring should they need it as we would not be able to afford it.

IL's were most put out that I refused to even entertain the idea that I would give up work or even go part time to provide them with care, in their minds it is truly 'owner of a vagina = family carer.
I have already done the majority of the care for our children and have forfeited my career and a salary to do so. DH & I have never had any help from anyone with regards to the children so we are looking forward to our children being older and more self sufficient and me being back in work so we would have more spare cash and time to actually do things as a family/couple instead of just surviving which we have been for the last 10+ years.

Not that DH and I think that for grandparents to have care from us means that they have to do the caring of the grandchildren while we work, I don't in anyway believe that. DH and I did question when would we get our time? IL's always go on about how DH was always at his grandparents for days and weeks on end so they could go on holidays or work without worrying about childcare etc. DH and I have never had that support so our time is when the children are mid to older teens and I am working so therefore we have time and money to do stuff like go away etc.

DH has told IL's he would rather they used their house/wealth to pay for any care they may need but they don't want to, I don't know what they expect will happen but whatever does I think will come as a shock to them.

I think the issue is also that we are not going to have enough professional carers due to Brexit, low wages etc. Even those who could pay won’t find space.