To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

Bob, thank you! I'm past the fury now but it still rankles. My MP did not give a fig.
Doesn't affect them it seems!

TheoneandObi

Been there with the 'don't want strangers' in the house. Initially the carers were from the council, as part of a care package after MIL fell and was hospitalised.
"These people are interfering in our lives!"
"We just want to be left alone in our own home!"
In 2015 FIL had a stroke and had to give up driving (at 91!) and was diagnosed with vascular dementia; then MIL was also diagnosed with dementia.
The council assessed them, and were happy that DH arranged care privately. This was partly so that the carers could spent longer than the council's short visits, and also so DH had more direct control over what tasks they carried out, which changed (and increased) as his parents needs changed.

As has been said upthread, their wants do not trump your right to live your own life.

Even with carers doing the bulk of the caring, somebody has to manage the whole shebang, and that takes up quite enough of your time and energy.

Also, doing personal care for a parent fundamentally changes your relationship with them. There comes a point when you are more a 'carer' and less their 'daughter' or 'son'. To preserve the relationship, don't do the personal care.

Anyway, fast forward to now: FIL is dead, and MIL has been in a nursing home for 18 months, all privately funded. The local council area has NO nursing home places which are fully council funded, they all require a top-up or full private funding. Some homes locally are charging £1300-1400 per week.

Imagine the outrage if a cancer patient was asked to stump up £1300 a week for treatment.

Imagine the outrage if a cancer patient was asked to stump up £1300 a week for treatment

But there is no treatment for dementia. It’s a terminal illness with no cure, all that can be provided is palliative care and that care is required 24/7. I don’t and didn’t begrudge my parents’ care home fees, it was their money, saved over a lifetime for a rainy day. Dementia for one and extreme frailty for the other was the rainy day and the care home was the umbrella.

We couldn't care for my f-in-law for several reasons:
We don't have the room
We have stairs down to the front door and a very wheelchair unfriendly house.
He needed specialist care.
My s-in-law offered as she's an intensive care nurse, but they would have had to convert their house and she wouldn't have been able to work.
To me it seems ridiculous that his house wasn't used to pay for his care. It's our money now but I don't feel that we're entitled to it.
But then, I think inheritance perpetuates social inequality and I don't agree with it. Spend your money on comforts while you're alive. My parents are seeing the world and I'm pleased for them.

Just to be clear, I'm very glad MIL has the money to fund her care - it gives her choices she (or more correctly now, DH) wouldn't otherwise have had. If she had any idea how much it's costing she'd be absolutely horrified. She was horrified to have to move to a nursing home in the first place, but it was the only place that could meet her needs, after 14 weeks in hospital. (It's just a shame PIL didn't spend more of their money on enjoying themselves earlier in life.)

MIL now needs a special bed, nursing care, medication, and personal care 24/7 - she can no longer do anything for herself. Eating exhausts her. She can barely even talk. Care couldn't be provided at home, by DH. He does not have the resources, the expertise or the time, so he would not be able to meet her needs. A nursing home is not what she wants, but it's what she needs, sadly.

Then why introduce the comparison with cancer care?

I think we'll end up outsourcing our elderly people to India, somewhere warm and sunny to help their arthritis😊

Sounds good to me. I’d most definitely be up for that.

Do you mean that you'll be in favour of the outsourcing, or do you mean that you'll be happy to be a person who is outsourced?

I’m more than happy to be outsourced, it sounds the perfect solution to me.

@Devlesko

Do you think everyone should be expected to give up their careers, move hundreds of miles and give their children a worse quality of life to look after their elderly parents Because of "duty"? Or is it just women who are expected to make sacrifices?

I was being somewhat facetious but maybe you're right Alsohuman?

Look at this way, where would you rather end up in you needed care? In an understaffed care home, enduring the grey, damp British winter every year or in a warm climate where you could sit with your face tipped up to the sun every day? And in a culture that values old people? Bring it on.

UYScuti Someone told me that in America families who can’t afford to care for their elderly parents who have dementia drive them to Florida and left them there on a bench!
Think they were joking but I could think of a lot worse places to be.
I think that’s what I’ll ask my kids to do if it happens to me.

There are already elderly British people receiving dementia care in Thailand.

families who can’t afford to care for their elderly parents who have dementia drive them to Florida and left them there on a bench
I've heard of similar cases, grandpa driven somewhere and then abandoned, like an unwanted pet
sit with your face tipped up to the sun every day? And in a culture that values old people
it sounds but would that culture value elderly people in the same way when they are turned into 'work that british people cant be bothered with'?

but would that culture value elderly people in the same way when they are turned into 'work that british people cant be bothered with'?

If they were paid enough they would. I imagine £1k a week goes a lot further in India.

well that's it then!
Sorted....

There is another thread currently under the Elderly section, entitled Is there any tax rebate ?

Which illustrates how difficult it is
Financially, physically, emotionally to care for elderly relatives

It's irrelevant as most of us under the age of 40 will be working way past the current retirement age, since we haven't been able to afford the luxury of owning our own homes. So as much as I would want to care for my parents, I can't. We will both still be working full time to keep a roof over our heads and try and get a head start for our sons in a world where it is becoming increasingly impossible.

The government created the problem of housing being so expensive and allowing people to have multiple properties, thus creating a shortfall that has increased values. The problem will come back and bite them in the arse soon enough. Something will have to give.

Interview here
www.modernmann.co.uk/
'my dad was defrauded', turns out the dad, who was living in cypress had developed alzheimers, the Dr who confirmed this said 'and the bad news is that he is in otherwise good health'

And?

Dementia and good physical health is a really bad combination. As is no dementia and extreme physical frailty.

I don't think there is any good solution to being old in this country.

I keep thinking about this thread. I think it is unfair that families who have already lost years caring for relatives before a crisis hits that results in full time residential care, lose any possibility of passing down money that realistically now days is used for getting younger generations into secure housing. The money pays to keep someone in care who ends up in a vegetative for a couple of years, or houses a family for a lifetime? This is short term fix that fucks up future generations like every other policy. Either fund people with dementia and progressive brain disease or make it fair and remove funding for every long term illness that requires. Or legalise euthanasia and give us the choice not to progressive decline fo years. Sorry if this harsh but I am in the middle of a crisis due to BOTH parents and fed up with how the penalties fall on the most vulnerable.

fed up with how the penalties fall on the most vulnerable

They don’t. The “penalties” fall on families who don’t get the inheritance they apparently feel entitled to. I can’t say I have much sympathy with them. I’m very glad the money my parents saved all their lives was there to make them comfortable in their old age. That’s what it was for, not to featherbed my children.