To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

The "penalties" come AFTER the families have fought crisis over crisis for many years before their relative needs care. To my mind that is absolutely not fair.

You have to fight so hard to get any kind of help, it's exhausting, stressful and draining.

And once the inheritance is spent on care for someone who would probably rather not be alive, what's the point?

You have to fight so hard to get any kind of help, it's exhausting, stressful and draining

Yup.

You have to fight so hard to get any kind of help, it's exhausting, stressful and draining.

Accurate description of my life for the past 15 years. And probably the next 15 year. How dare I want to not worry about my children being homeless too. It’s not about hoping for a nice juicy inheritance to blow on expensive holidays. It’s not ‘featherbedding” it’s hoping they have a chance at the security of a home for life that previous generations expected.

I hope I die of something quick because I never want to put my children through this.

I hope I die of something quick because I never want to put my children through this

Yup, my DF dropped dead on the golf course - what a way to go! Horrible shock for everyone else, but much better than DM's 10 year decline, accelerated in the last horrible 5 months of her life which was worse than I can ever say.

I’ll third that. I’ve gone as far as deciding that if I get cancer now I’ll refuse treatment.

Going into a care home is , in the main, optional. if you have a strong desire to stay at home it can usually be managed with home care support (I run a service to end of life. Social Services do charge financial contributions for homecare services but there is no requirement to sell your house or any charge put on it. In any event only 30% of the population ever need care in a care home. All my grandparents died in hospital after short illnesses, as did my mother who cared for herself very well at home until she had a serious fall. My father died in a hospice of cancer after a very short stay. No one in my family has ever been in a care home, so I'm not too worried ab;out it happening to me.

I'm dreading facing old age without children to advocate for me.

As for my parents, DH and I will move in with them when the time comes to care for them. In the same way that we did for our grandparents. If it means being a bit cramped, so be it.

It’s not optional if you need 24/7 care and you most definitely will need it if you live long enough.

Re dementia and good physical health being a bad combination, I do so agree.

My DM showed the first signs of dementia in her very early 80s, and went on to 97 - in a most pitiful state for her last few years, no clue about anything, unable to hold any sort of conversation, not knowing any of her family - and doubly incontinent.
In the meantime she’d had no real illnesses or health conditions - had recovered in her very early 90s from a broken hip - so often the beginning of the end for many.
Who the hell wants to end up like that?.

A man in his mid 70s (with dementia) was a new resident at her care home. He was often very angry and violent, e.g. chucking chairs about - his poor wife was a very frequent visitor and I used to wonder how on earth she’d managed to cope with him at home, as she evidently had for quite a while.

One day when I went in he was no longer there. Because of his anger and violence, I assumed he’d been transferred, but asked where he was anyway.

He’d had a heart attack and died.

And all I could think was, ‘Good.’ I know it’s a horrible cliche, but surely it was a merciful release.
No such luck for my poor mother.

Dementia is my greatest fear. I fear it a lot more than cancer.

My mum did not have any form of dementia before she fell and catastrophically broke her arm in June 2018. The next 5 months involved numerous falls, a broken hip - which was replaced, appalling hospital care at times, several care homes - one private, the others state, and it was all just terrible for her. I honestly wish she'd hit her head and died in June 2018. She would not have wanted to become what she became, and her fear and horror as she declined was a terrible thing to watch and be part of. Seeing your own mother smearing shit all over her hospital bed is not what I want for my DC.

Perhaps we will see changes when more people speak out about the horrors of a parent existing for years with dementia?

I agree with so many points on here. Especially.about being so exhausted at fighting to get any kind of hemp and assistance. In my case from my siblings too. The toll these past few years have take on me and DH is awful and our relationship will take along time to recover. We managed to get my mother into a lovely home and she died one week later (heart attack). I'm 100% sure I want to euthanized if my quality of life starts declining like that. My relationship with my sons is not great so they would be unlikely to take me in anyway. Getting old fucking sucks.

Alsohuman - most people don't need to go into a care home and extreme old age is no indication of needing 24 hour care. Most people with cancer want to die at home and there are perfectly good ways of caring for very poorly people in their own homes, right up to end of life.
Dementia is a very difficult condition to live with and to care for someone with, but for most of us who work in care Motor Neurone disease is the condition we fear the most. I have lost a colleague and three service users to this and I'm sure I'd end my life soon after diagnosis if it hit me.

@Astrabees, we disagree. My parents were aged 96 and 99 when they entered a care home. There was no option. I couldn’t continue getting out of bed and driving 12 miles at 4am three times a week and their home was unsuitable for live in care, even if they’d have entertained the idea. We weren’t the first and won’t be the last to be in this situation.

Alsohuman “ I’ve gone as far as deciding that if I get cancer now I’ll refuse treatment.”

Same here. From stage 1, all my dad‘s treatment did was prolong the unpleasantness. If he’d survived, he’d just be battling old age.

I suppose to some extent it depends on the definition of 24 hour care.

Having someone sit by your bed - not for most, although mum was 'specialled' 24 hours a day towards the end.

Being the person on the end of the phone for the 3am calls, the sorting all kinds of stuff out left right and centre as well as providing emotional support, working, running a home, looking after kids (even big ones and adult ones need a degree of input) - from my perspective it felt as if I was providing 24 hour care.

from my perspective it felt as if I was providing 24 hour care

Yup. Me too. Nearly broke me.

everycloud “As for my parents, DH and I will move in with them when the time comes to care for them”

I admire that. I thought I’d do it. In the end, I figured it would just end up ruining my life too and I feel very keen to hang on to the good moments now. Maybe that makes me selfish, but I’ve become more conscious than ever that I want to enjoy my life.

X cross posting everywhere

Yes, even with dad in hospital/hospice, it felt like being on call 24/7 plus having to take care of mum.

I looked back at a diary from the period and I didn’t write down much, but I did write down that I wondered if I should kill myself. I don’t remember writing it. I remember thinking it, but not writing it.

autumn I'm glad you didnt!

Re if I get cancer... well I think I'll wait a bit on that one as am only 58. If I get cancer in my mid 70s then I will review and see what the options are.

DH finishes chemo tomorrow, he is 57. No question in his mind at this stage of our lives that we had to do what the doctors said, and hopefully it has been a complete success.

Alsohuman, I don't think we do disagree - I've already said 30% of people move into care homes. If there is a very strong motivation (and i have cared for people who have specified this in advance care plans ahead of time, including one doctor) care can be put in place to remain at home, almost always for less than the cost of a care home.My point is that being 90, 95 or 100 does not inevitably mean you need a lot of care. My experience with people of very advanced age, including some of over 100 who lived at home alone, is that it is usually a very minor illness of short duration that is the final one.

yolo “ No question in his mind at this stage of our lives that we had to do what the doctors said, and hopefully it has been a complete success.”

Of course. To be clear, I appreciate I’m a rarity in that I wouldn’t want cancer treatment. Im not suggesting anyone should agree with me.