To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

In France children are responsible for helping to finance their parents care.

Confused!
People already have to fund care through their houses ... it's hardly been political suicide ..

You have qualms about euthanasia. Do you have qualms about humans being forced to suffer barbaric deaths worse than torture or being forced to die alone in pain and distress as the only way to avoid that suffering? Or suffering greater pain after a failed attempt to end their suffering because they are denied a humane death?

If euthanasia is such a terrible thing why is it considered the humane and best choice for animals? Why do people who force an animal to suffer face repercussions but people who force humans to suffer are protected?

Fucked up. I don't think our law on euthanasia is about preventing abuse, I think it's about our fear of our own mortality and refusal to accept we will all die one day.

Besides which, how does your household budget approach to economics work if you remove all these adults from paid employment to work as unpaid carers?

Why are care homes so expensive?

Staff, maintenance of buildings, insurance, heat and light, staff training, cleaning, catering. All sorts really.

Plus most of them are businesses where they have to make a profit too or else they will cease to operate. Whilst the costs are shocking, the actual overheads are massive too.

Why should people who own their homes perhaps having saved all their lives to pay down the mortgage have to pay for their own care, while people who have rented and not saved for a rainy day don’t have to pay?
I realise it’s not always a choice, but some people live frugally all their lives while other people spend spend spend....

I think it depends on culturally how we view the old. They are either a burden to be disposed of as quickly as possible or they are to be valued and seen as "elders". Currently to most they are a burden and their care is to be outsourced as much as possible.

I think that if house prices/rent were more reasonable, people would be less reluctant to sell their houses in old age. I am the same- I worry about my children not being able to have a secure home, and so I want to keep my house as long as possible so they always have somewhere to live, or so they can sell it for a deposit after I am dead. If they were able to buy or rent somewhere of their own in my lifetime, I could concentrate on using my house to finance my own care. But at present I want to try and help them as much as possible, so will struggle on looking after myself in my old age for as long as I can.

I really do hope right to die is in force by the time I need it as I have no children and I wouldn't want to burden my nephew with worrying about me. As for my parents, they know I don't care about inheritance as much as I care about them being comfortable and looked after, I don't fancy spending my 'retirement' being a carer but I love them I'll do what I have to. People just need to understand you can't have it all, yes that will deter some from even bothering to make provisions for their old age but what is the alternative?

it's bloody hard looking after a relative, my mil is 92 and has a catheter and advanced dementia, I am not trained to look after her, it's a professional job that needs a trained carer to do. It's bloody hard. there is no advice or help offered you are left to find out how crap everything thing is yourself. It's so easy to judge until you are in that position.

Why should people who own their homes perhaps having saved all their lives to pay down the mortgage have to pay for their own care, while people who have rented and not saved for a rainy day don’t have to pay?

On the other hadn't what about the enormous proportion of today's generation who simply can't afford to buy their own home? Should they be penalised for the ridiculous rise in house prices that hold them back when our parents generation benefitted so hugely from cheap housing?

I don’t have kids or a spouse and fully expect to have to sell my home to pay for care home fees if I live that long. What worries me is that there is no way of knowing whether you are going to be treated like shit when you’re in there - I don’t worry about not having kids because that’s no reason to have them but I do worry about not having someone to advocate for me should I need it.

Currently around 410,000 older ppl are in care homes out of a population of 11.9 million ppl aged over 65

The vast majority of older people don’t get anywhere near a care home but stay at home supported mainly by family and sometimes paid for care

However demographic changes mean that there are already over 1 million ppl over 65 who have no children in 10 years time it’ll by 2 million. Smaller families in general mean that there are also fewer nieces/nephews as well

The government’s plan for social care is that families need to do more (ignoring the fact they already do a huge amount) older people without family are going to be fucked not to put to fine a point on it it!

What User? I didn't say euthanasia in itself is a terrible thing. I'm just not sure how we avoid people being "persuaded" their ready to die, for example, to avoid their DCs inheritance going on care fees.

If we can be sure it won't won't be abused, I can see a lot of pros.

I say the above as someone who is unable to have children & more than happy to shell out for my own care

oh and she is paying for this from savings, £7000 a month

QuickNameChange123456 yes Its Germany but not just over 40s - 3% of your gross salary is deducted at source for care insurance, 15.5% for compulsory state health insurance and around 2.5% for compulsory state unemployment insurance (this finances a year of very generous unemployment benefit for people who have been in employment for the previous two years, only dropping down to a minimum benefit after a year). Consolidation tax is also deducted, and compulsory pension insurance.

Then tax is generally higher than in the UK on top of all that.

The UK population have been taught to expect a Champagne social safety net on cheap own brand orange squash money, but still think they pay too much because they never compare like for like with other countries.

In Germany relatives are obligated to pay towards care home fees under some circumstances too.

Can’t address most of this post as I can’t get over You thinK a decent ratio should be 1 care worker to 12? Or did I get that wrong.

So one person to get 12 residents up, dressed, showered and fed each morning?

People like @chockaholic72 would be best served by hiring an advocate to visit with them and check on the care they are receiving. Having had several relatives in care homes the disparity between the care residents received who have children who visited frequently and those that did not was chilling. I always have felt incredibly bad for those that didn't have anyone to check on them. They are incredibly vunerable.

My dad dad at home with me and my siblings by his side.at the momemt i am sat by my mums side in hospital she is 89 and lived independently until being admitted with pneumonia last week ,i am not sure she will pull through ,i dont want her to die alone in hospital
I am hoping i dont need to go into care ,if I do then its only right if I have the means that i will fund it ....money gives you better choices...
Its so sad to see people in here sat all alone

Is long term care insurance not available for people in the UK

@Dontsweatthelittlestuff I think you’ve misread - she’s saying a 1:4 ratio.

Some cultures as far as I am aware do look after their own. There is a large Pakistani population in my surrounding area and the elderly are all looked after at home. I have worked in lots of care homes over the years and I can't remember a single Asian resident.

Dontsweat, yes I thought that was high too but if it's fewer residents to staff, the cost is even higher and I didn't want to be accused of exaggerating!

How many are staff expected to deal with. I have a friend who does care work, she loves her old people and is exactly the kind of person you'd hope to be cared by but I know she does get complaints from residents because they can't always get up and dressed at the time they would like.

My dad was a council tenant for years and years and he had to fund his care home from savings , his private pension and attendance allowance. A year and half later his savings have dwindled to nearly nothing. He has Alzheimer's and dementia so always done the right things in life and worked for over forty years and was a soldier during the last war and still paying out when others don't.
I haven't the space for him as there are four of us at home as my sons can't afford to move out as rents and homes are out of reach and they only have normal jobs and fares to pay.
You would need to give up your career and life to care for him too ; complex needs at 98. It's a problem that will affect so many people. Luckily dad has savings. Many don't. His never claimed or anything ; the system isn't fair for dementia patients.
( I did write to my MP about it , but they don't care !)

Is it Germany where over 40s have to pay into some sort of insurance scheme to pay for care in old age?

No it's Britain, and it's called "national insurance".

Why are care homes so expensive?

Because someone realised you could put the word "industry" after "care" and make it a commercial venture, rather than a social provision.

Everything is an industry these days. Healthcare. Education. Special needs provision. Disability.