To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

Yes, MarchDaffs, I laughed hollowly at caringcarer's post. I was by my df's side constantly whilst he was ill. From diagnosis to death it was six weeks. From mil's diagnosis of dementia until death... nearly 20 years.

In fairness a lot of people never inherit anyway. Yes it can be life changing.

Governments are not silly; they know that dementia can last years and years.
It's appalling how the elderly are treated on this country with these brain diseases.

I won’t be looking after mine, they’ll have to sell up and pay for it.

BeyondMyWits of course not, but it is the leading cause of death for women in the UK:

That has really shocked me. I had no idea that was the case. I thought I was fairly clued in, but clearly not. It's such a hidden illness isn't it?

this issue has been all too real for me this weekend, my elderly father is in hospital with pneumonia, I think he will be ok, he is fully compos mentis and does not behave like an 'elderly' man, however, he is 6ft and 15 stone, my dm is tiny and in her 80s - there is no way he could be cared for by us at home if he were to become immobile, a care home would be his worst nightmare, harsh as it sounds, and I love my father a very great deal, I hope to god he dies if it comes to that, and so does he!, my dm feels the same way - we really need to look at when a life is no longer worth living for that person and let them have a kind way out, both for their humanity and the cost of keeping old, ill, infirm people alive because we feel we 'should' do. I dont belive it is always very kind to do so.

oh and yes, I would not expect to inherit if care has to be paid for, thats what their money is for, not to give to us.

That has really shocked me. I had no idea that was the case. I thought I was fairly clued in, but clearly not. It's such a hidden illness isn't it?

I’m not sure that it is that hidden - certainly not if you have elderly parents. My aunt and father have dementia (my father being 5 years younger than my aunt, is in a much milder stage). A old friend of my mother’s has severe dementia.

It’s a common illness in the 80+ bracket.

I think many with advanced dementia would rather not live , but the rules about this won't change for a long time. I can see why but it's still a problem nobody is prepared to talk about apart from on forums like this or the Alzheimer's forum I go on.
I come on these type of threads then I just end up panicking about the future for myself and dh! It is a bit depressing and I dont want to put my children through any of this.
My inlaws were trouble enough and they didn't have dementia just other health problems etc. That went on for years. It can be very draining .

I've also filled in an advanced directive, linked to before, after seeing what my mum went through; I do not want that for myself.
go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=compassionindying.org.uk/making-decisions-and-planning-your-care/planning-ahead/advance-decision-living-will/

Personally I think there could/should almost be a cut off point, related to quality of life, of giving antibiotics. There is lots of evidence that antibiotics are losing efficacy due to overuse (entering the water system so affects everyone, not just the person taking them?); my mum was on them for UTIs constantly in her last two years.
I don't want a long prolonged decline of non-life into death. Declining antibiotics will hopefully hurry my death along at that stage.

On the financial side; not owning a property to pay for care doesn't necessarily mean you have been work-shy, and owning a property doesn't necessarily make you a hard-working, upstanding member of society. There's no correlation.

it is the leading cause of death for women in the UK

True. But often used as a "catch all" because doctors are no longer allowed to put "old age" on death certificates. You apparently have to die of something, so if you don't have a specific illness like cancer, or heart failure, then in old age, that seems to be the go-to answer. Crazy system, everything has become so medicalised, you even have to have a pm if you haven't seen your doctor for a few weeks. Once of the reasons care homes have weekly visits from GP's is to mitigate the need for post-mortems.

I think it is easy to talk about what you will do for parents when they need help, when you have no idea what this can mean in reality.

I do judge those with non abusive frail parents who stay away and do nothing to help.

Strangely enough , my mil had many health problems and died late last year. Her death certificate said ' old age'! ( Even they cba with her in the end! ) she was 93.
I was surprised to see this on there I must admit! Even the undertaker remarked on it too.

About 1 in 5 only need to go into a care home however.

My parents died at 75 and 79 so we are not very long livers in our family. It does vary however in many other families.

Baaaahhhhh heart failure is the usual catch all - because ultimately death is heart failure at a basic level.

You have to have a dementia diagnosis for it to be the cause of death.

Xenia

Your parents died very young, bless them.

In my DM's care home (which is amazing by the way), they are all, and I mean all, in their 90's and 100's. Most of them come in to the home, in their early 90's due to frailty, will then often have a stroke, and live out their remaining 5-10 years sitting in a chair or in bed. It breaks your heart to see them.

@baaahh That will be because most younger people die at home.

ItWillBeBetterInAugust Maybe, but then I was just googling and it seems you can't have that either without stating another underlying cause!

@midnightcamiforever
It’s not about feeling entitled to money you haven’t earnt. It’s about the fact that at the moment it’s a completely unfair lottery where those who have a heart attack and keel over and die can pass on everything to their family. Whereas those with dementia not only have to live with an unbearable cruel diagnosis that destroys their whole sense of self but do so in the knowledge that their life savings and everything that they want to pass to their children will go on their care.
Good for you that you can afford to save for a deposit at the same time as keeping a roof over your head. Many can’t. How will they fund their care if the modest inheritance they had hoped to get to fund their own modest house purchase goes instead on care for their parents. Linking care costs to the housing market Ponzi scheme we have in this country is a disgrace. Many of today’s young people might never be able to get on the housing market at all and 1 in 3 of them will get dementia (never mind other conditions needing long term care). Unless a more sustainable way of funding this is found it is a ticking time bomb

1 in 3 will only get dementia if they live till over 90.
I think I will take up cocaine in my old age.

Xenia, if your 79 year old parent had died at 80, you would probably consider that a fairly long life. We don't always follow our parents regarding milestones - death being the final one - so you may live longer and I hope you keep well in old age, many do. My mum died at 86 from a leaking aneurysm but she had been quite well and fit until a couple or three days before dying - her mum lived to 92. My grandparents lived to 80s (gran) and 98 (grandad) but their son, my dad, died at sixty nine. You never can tell. Both my in-laws lived to be older than my husband but they did have serious illnesses. Bless (sorry, thinking of that takes me back).

So many very sad stories on here, it is scary but best not to look too far into the future and live for the here and now, trying to keep ourselves as well as we can. Sometimes easier said than done.

My biggest fear - when I think of it - is having something, eg a severe stroke, that disables me so much that I cannot do anything and maybe not be able to communicate. Like most of us, I hope I go off quietly and quickly when the time comes and I don't care when that is.

Old age can be a curse (my mother used to say, "I dread old age", when she was old :-), but it can be good. We must remember that younger and young people become ill and need care and Alzheimer's Disease was originally given the name to identify pre-senile dementia - it can start in our 50s. I already mentioned my neighbour's mother who became ill with Alzheimer's in her early sixties and needed care for many years before dying.

Well I'm not going to fund my care, if I need it, from my house but I do intend to downsize in a couple of years so will have more cash from the sale of this house. I want somewhere that has a downstairs bath/shower room or has the space to put one in - just in case. When I've done that I'll relax and start leaping around like a young thing (wishful thinking).

Xenia Mon 24-Feb-20 10:24:49
About 1 in 5 only need to go into a care home
.......
Yes and out of those who do, quite a few won't be in a nursing home for long. I've had relatives who were only in such a home for one to three weeks because they were terminal, they were well looked after. It must be awful to be in one for months and years, dreadful for the relatives too. The important thing their nearest and dearest can do - if they have any - is keep watch on the home and the care, be on the ball and if not satisfactory, move the elderly person to another place.

Funnily enough, I've known elderly people who have never married or had children who live to be quite old and never had to go into residential care (they might have a flat in a retirement complex (sheltered?), but that isn't the same thing).

I feel terribly sorry for posters on this thread who've been through the mill with regard to their parents' needs.

The inheritance thing does stick in your craw a bit when I see my friend, whose parents have recently died, able to buy a London flat each for her dcs. The pil galloped through over £500K of house and savings, leaving nothing. I think there will be a big divide of haves and have nots in the future, purely based on inheritance. It didn't happen so much in the past because houses were not worth nearly so much. Inheritances for most people were much smaller. Now you can see hundreds of thousands in care going up the swanee when the person concerned is living a miserable existence.

Back to the OP, well then, perhaps we should do our own care if we want to inherit. I have some sympathy with this view, but having seen dementia in action I would rather have no inheritance than have to cope with someone raging around smearing faeces everywhere.

Yes sadly adult children can die before their elderly parents. The woman who lived to 122, the oldest ever, had a daughter who died at 59. The 122 year old woman was a smoker all her life. So it is not as if she lived a 100% healthy life.

I think one major thing that has changed is that we are now able to keep alive younger people who would have died not that long ago. Only about 70 years ago, before antibiotics were invented, I would have died in my 30's. But it meant that people who did live were stronger and more likely to live a healthy life until not long before they died. As people like me have been kept alive, we live longer into old age, but usually need much more medical care to do so.

@IrmaFayLear There is already a divide between haves and have nots based on inheritance. I see it all the time. I agree it is going to get much worse.

@IrmaFayLear you're jealous of your friends who's parents have died?