To think families are going to have to look after their own old people?

[ElderAve]

It's not a judgement, the idea fills me with dread but how else are we supposed to pay for it? In a world where:

• It's political suicide to suggest that people who have valuable homes, they are no longer living in should use that value to pay for care.
• Everyone should be paid a proper living wage.
• We have increasing numbers of people needing care.

For example, between DH and I we have 4 elderly parents, still very much fit and well, but realistically, that can't carry on forever. Those parents have 4 working offspring.

I don't know how many residents a care home worker can care for but let's say it's 12, which to provide 24hr care means 3 shifts, so the equivalent of 1 full person to care for our 4 parents. That means that the state needs to raise tax equivalent to 1 (living wage) salary from the four of us and that's before paying for schools, hospitals etc.

Obviously not everyone has elderly parents needing care but those will often be heavy users of the schools system and we still need to pay for all the other services.

I just can't see how the state can do it, if they keep promising not to take the elderly's homes, which is so emotive.

Families are going to have to look after their own old people.

I’d be happy to provide my ageing mother with the same level of care she provided for me - life threatening levels of neglect and every form of abuse that exists.

Then I can give every single penny from her estate to Children 1st. Sounds great.

If I am heading towards needing a carer I’ll put myself out my misery. No way on earth I would allow myself to be that vulnerable again.

Dementia runs in families, rather than as a result of poor life choices, as has been suggested. Not being able to pass inheritance on at a time when it is primarily used to get younger generations onto the property ladder is setting up the unluckiest families for poverty, a double whammy.

My Father developed a horrible form of dementia in his 50’s, I cared for him as much as I could but it was bloody hard. He had no way of funding his care, however was drained to his last few hundred pounds before the council let him off paying towards it. My mother is staying with me at the moment and has started to show signs, it’s early stages but I am already struggling to cope with the constant anxiety and aggression thrown at me daily, I think I’m already depressed so God knows what state I will be in down the line. I am struggling to also raise my son and hold down a job, I don’t really have much of a life anymore. If the time comes when I get dementia and I know it’s likely, I have informed my family to feel no guilt about moving me to residential care, or better still Dignitas. I do not want to be kept alive in a near vegetative state. I have been caring for my parents since my 30’s, I want my children to have more freedom to enjoy the healthy time they have.

I think that most care needs can be met in home environment of people are of sound mind but those who are disorientated and wandering at night, that becomes impossible. What I find sad, working in this area, is that so many elderly people live alone and they would be able to stay at home for longer if they were with extended family, even if the family members worked. Just knowing there will be a bit meal in the evening, a bit of adult conversation, someone nearby if there is a night time emergency. This can make a huge difference to older people mental health and confidence. As care need s increase there can be carers who come in during the day so family do not have to do personal care. What I see a lot of is families putting immense pressure on elderly parents to go into a home because they live at a distance and do not want to live with the constant worry that their elderly parent might fall and not get help etc. For some that is the right decision but for others who would be utterly miserable in a care home, I do not see the point. If there are risks to them being at home, providing the risks are to them and not others ( such as burning down a block of flats or running around a busy road at night) then I think you have to ask yourselves what you are achieving by getting them to agree to a care home. You have to ask yourself what is being achieved. They are being fed and washed and kept safe but are miserable. At home they might be at high risk of falls and not eating so well but if they are genuinely happier like that, it may shorten their life but if that life was happier then that is better outcome. I can usually tell which off my patients would settle well in a care home and who would be miserable fairly soon after meeting them!
So.... it is a shame that we have lost the norm of living in extended family units as it had many benefits for both young and old.

I live with and am full time carer to my MIL who has Alzheimer’s. Caring for her has been a personal decision rather than a financial one. All that being said finances have been a big consideration, but not for the reasons you might think. MIL has enough assets between property and savings to fund her care from now and until the end of her life, and she could well live another 10 years. It would be possible (depending) that DH would still inherit something after care home fees.

However given that MIL is only 72 and helped us save on nursery fees when my eldest 2 were small by looking after them a couple of days a week, and being an ex teacher did a terrific job and taught them to count/read/write etc. I feel that we owe it to her to be there for her. We were never expecting to be in this position as FIL passed away very unexpectedly and obviously MIL lost her husband. Can you imagine being ill not understanding what’s going on, losing your husband and carer and then being shoved into a home full of strangers. That seems awful and cruel to me, and is among one of the many reasons we dropped everything to move in and care for her. We have 3 DC, the youngest only 18 months old at the time, it has been hard. Caring truly is quiet a sacrifice and certainly not something you could do for a purely financial gain. The toll it takes is quite unimaginable until the reality of doing it smacks you in the face. Over the last 8 months MIL has had significant decline, doesn’t know who we are most of the time and is doubly incontinent, and even still we can’t imagine putting her into a care home. I do suppose there will come a point where it will be necessary and of course due to her assets MIL will be paying for it when the time comes. Is that fair that she pays? Honestly I don’t know....and I think that may be partly due to the fact that she will pay for care that others get for free and in fact due to how the funding works will not only pay for herself but also for someone who can’t. It’s not like I don’t think she should pay either, it complicated and emotionally charged issue.

But it’s no longer possible living in extended family units, it’s the norm for both partners to work. The extended family living all under one roof ideal relies heavily on one family member, usually women being constantly there to supply care for elderly relatives on top of everything else.

People got on their bikes and moved for work.

Although that can be true, a lot of retired people are carers. I suspect my in laws will not need care until we are both retired. So jobs will not be an issue.
I actually would help care for my MIL, but my FIL is different. He is not a nice man.

I haven’t read the full thread but I agree with everything @Hoikvsaid

Perhaps a monthly contribution similar to NI should be considered.

NI was supposed to cover all this. The issue is that it has not been increased in line with needs

When my Mum was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and was told up to 6 months to live I have up my job and spent 4 days each week caring for her. I have 4 sisters who also cared for her too. Together we set up a rota system so there were always 2 sisters to care day and night. I lived over a hundred miles from my Mum but we made it work. In the end Mum only lived 7 weeks. I got another job a month later. No job would ever be more important to me than my Mum. 2 sisters were sahm, one took sabbatical of 6 months, one had retired very early. It was heart wrenching and very hard to witness rapid decline, bit I felt I had to do it. I am glad I did it even though very stressful for me and my family at the time.

Maybe we could all pay into an insurance policy the same way that we pay into pension scheme. By time we get old and need care we would have money set aside. Some people would pay in years of insurance but not need care before they die.

What's the point in working all your life and going without to buy your own home to have it taken away to pay for care home fees when you have paid all your taxes to have that benefit in old age. You might as well not work get the state to pay for your house and your children and the state pay for your care home. It's ridiculous

My mother was so abusive to me growing up, I have minimal contact with her and she still can be very nasty. my Nan is now in a home and my mother is just awful to her.
Sounds horrid to say but I’d take my dad in in a heartbeat and nurse him until the end because he’s always done so much for me, gone above and beyond!
Does that make me a horrible person?! 🙈

NI is not intended to pay for social care unlike the NHS, if it is funded at all it is paid for by local government ie poll tax.

Pixxie: and yet the bill for the care people need for the medical illness which is Alzheimer’s, for example, had been diverted to Adult Services.

I hear what your saying but this is why it’s so complicated any medical condition is paid for by the nhs, it’s the care that comes from social care.

My mum is in hospital at present but sadly as she cannot cope in her own home she has to go into a care home once she comes out. Her house will have to be sold to fund it. I have no other relatives apart from my husband and I live 3 hours away from my mum but she wants to be in a care home near me which is great. However I am concerned about clearing, selling house as everything is in a mess.

Lots of women are single parents and can't afford to just give up work to care for their relatives. It's ok if you have a partner who can pay the bills for you but many homes don't work like that anymore (or would want to. ) Men expect their partners to work and be self sufficient as well. Giving up your career for your children is frowned upon by some let alone to look after mum or dad in their old age!
Lots of mumsnetters are also no contact with parents. Lots of people will be left to get on with it in their old age I think. Not everyone , but a big percentage will.

Holly ivy, a home clearance company is your best option maybe? We have used them for our parents council homes ( everything had to be removed even the carpets) they were all done in a day. The council would have charged us if anything had been left there!
Not cheap but they are fast and a lot they can take to charity shops as well as the tip.
It's hard but impossible on your own to deal with the bulkier items that may need to be removed. May be worth looking into.

I'd be happy to care for my mum if/when she needs it but Brexit will make it impossible, because I live in France and after the end of this year she will no longer be able to come to live with me. I won't be able to return to the U.K. because of family responsibilities, the risk of losing residency rights and the fact that I will have no right to healthcare in the U.K.

Mum is in her mid 80s and although she's in good health, I do worry about this :(

Mistigri, I think your mum would be able to come and join you even after transition - wasn't that part of the withdrawal agreement? We've thought about it a bit for if/when my mum gets to that point - if she wants to, assuming I've understood the laws properly, she'd be welcome to come here, but our expectation is that we won't inherit anything and our parents' money is obviously theirs to spend as needed/wanted. I can't understand why the state should spend money on funding care for people who have significant assets of their own, if it doesn't have enough to go around to properly support people who don't have any assets. If social care is to be a universal system, it needs to be much better funded through taxation, and otherwise it will have to be merely a safety net for those who have no choice. It can't be universal and remain at near-current levels of funding.

user1497997754 that's an absolute nonsense argument, unless you've had no benefit from your salary and home over the course of your life. It makes no more sense than objecting to having to pay your own rent or mortgage when some people get housing benefit.

My father had Parkinsons and spent the last six months of his life in a nursing home. The fees were £1200 a week. He received attendance allowance and a nursing allowance so effectively £1000 a week. It would probably have been reasonable for him to pay up to half that for board and lodging and the rest should have been NHS funded in my view.

Agree with a pp that extending the reach of IHT would be fairer but there's no way this government will ever do that, they plan to do the opposite. For me it's fairer that say everyone pays 20% of their estate, rather than a few having to pay more or less everything they have.

My parents both died without needing care. Why assume yours will need it?

This assumption that ageing is a "problem" that requires state interference is odd.