To wonder why looks are more of an issue to women than men?

[malificent7]

Of course nowadays there is certainly pressure on men to look good and have a gym body aswell as women, however why is it that age is more attractive in men rather than women.
For example, men can grow grey gracefully whilst with women wd are encouraged to dye hair.
Prob done to death but it feels worth another discussion.

I'm guessing that the likes of Rod Stewart and Mick Jagger aren't quite in the same league of odium to live with

I bet they’re worse, they’ve got egos the size of a small planet.

None of us can know for sure, but you may well be right. I bet they don't see themselves as equal partners with their wives and that they make most of the big decisions with their own everybody's interests at heart. If so, maybe their wives like that - there are some women out there who do just want an easy life as a trophy wife and to be 'taken care of' as if they were a child, with an unlimited credit card at their disposal. In reality, they probably end up more like 'PAs with benefits' than wives.

Yes we have moved on but not far enough

It will only move on further when women own their choices, not sit back and bleat its not our fault, it’s the men’s.

If we continue to refuse to take responsibility for our choices, and also blame men, then it’s never going to move further, how could it? We would be seen as what we are behaving as, pitiful women blaming everyone else for our behaviour.

And as for this piece of nonsense “ but the women who should be in these positions of power I. E. In their 60's, are still of the generation of 'sit down, look pretty be quiet, confrontation is seen as rudeness”

That’s simply offensively, I’m fifty one, I don’t behave like that, I work with women in their sixties, high powered high earning women and they don’t do that, even my grandmothers didn’t do that.

Don’t make an individuals choice a stereotype as a way to get out of responsibility.

As said, that’s not the world I live in, nor is it the world anyone I know lives in, if you chose to sit down, be pretty and say nothing, you’re never getting anywhere on the career ladder. Nor are you going to command respect from anyone who knows you.

The world moved on, it’s 2020. We are responsible for our own choices. We need to own that.

Right, so it’s our choice to have 29 year old women cast as mother to a 20 year old man with a 60 year old husband? It’s our choice that older women are under represented on TV? It’s our choice to have men and boys pull apart our looks for not being perfect? It’s our choice that news editors and writers focus on female MPs shoes?

Well thank god misogyny ended, no one let me know, so I missed it I guess.

Right, so it’s our choice to have 29 year old women cast as mother to a 20 year old man with a 60 year old husband? It’s our choice that older women are under represented on TV?
Not an Eastenders viewer I take it

It will only move on further when women own their choices, not sit back and bleat its not our fault, it’s the men’s.

I own my choices and have never said that any inequality I ( or others) have faced is mens fault. And I certainly don't 'bleat' about it but we do live in a patriarchal society and that has an impact on the choices we make - consciously and sub-consciously. I work with people to try and address these inequalities and it's actually quite unhelpful to deny they exist.

I don’t think that’s what Bluntness is saying at all, she’s not in denial. What I understand her to be saying and I agree wholeheartedly, is that we all have the ability and responsibility to control how react to and deal with it.

The patriarchy is what it is but we have a choice in how we engage with it. We can sit back and blame men for everything or we can take it on and fight back. There was no way I was bringing my son up to think men ruled the world by right. He has the utmost respect for strong women who he considers equals in every respect. We owe it to our sons as well as our daughters to be strong role models who don’t take any shit.

I agree but it's important to understand those choices are not made in a vacuum.

Men who die their hair are generally considered ridiculous. Women can do it with impunity.

I agree with SueEllenMishke, we don't make choices in a vacuum. We might not realise it but social expectations do influence us, even if it influences us to contravene them.

I've spent my entire working life in male dominated professions, I've done very well, but being a woman has had an impact.

Men who die their hair are generally considered ridiculous. Women can do it with impunity.

Why do you think caring about your appearance is seen as okay for women but silly if men do it?

Men who die their hair are generally considered ridiculous. Women can do it with impunity.

And women who don't dye their hair are regarded as 'letting themselves go', whereas no one thinks that about greying men, who are seen as 'distinguished'.

A friend of mine, who is a senior academic, 44, quite grey and undyed, was recently told by her departmental administrator 'Oh, we all think you're so brave!' And on another occasion, by someone else entirely, that 'It's all right for you to go grey because you're thin, but you can't be fat and grey.'

Yes, I let the grey grow out when I was 43 and got the brave comments too. It was considered even more letting the side down 24 years ago. My response was that bravery was fighting a war, not having hair your natural colour.

These things aren't immutable.

Go back 400 years and earlier, and dressing up wasn't a sign of femininity but status. Who had the best jewellery in the kingdom? The king, and he wore in on his head.

Normal men and normal women wore plain clothes, the nobility were very flamboyant indeed (unless they were Puritans). Check out, for example, what the Stuart monarchs wore, especially Charles II.

The last remnant of this is things like judicial robes and church vestments.

Not an Eastenders viewer I take it

Not for about 20 years

Not all men age well. No men have to go through the menopause.

Right, so it’s our choice to have 29 year old women cast as mother to a 20 year old man with a 60 year old husband? It’s our choice that older women are under represented on TV? It’s our choice to have men and boys pull apart our looks for not being perfect? It’s our choice that news editors and writers focus on female MPs shoes?

No, it’s the Male or female producer who chose the actress. It’s the 29 year old woman who accepted the part. Men and boys pulling our looks apart, right because men don’t get that from women do they? And as for Diane Abbott shoes, did you not see the outcry over corbyns anorak.? Our boris’s hair, or the many memes mocking his appearance?

Why Pick one female example. When you could have substantiated it with the many many instances Of men also being ripped apart

And as for the shoes, yes I expect my politicians, particularly one who would be Home Secretary. to be wearing not just matching shoes, but actually be able to put the correct shoes on each foot.

Male or female

Call it a basic requirement to being in charge of national security.

No, it’s the Male or female producer who chose the actress. It’s the 29 year old woman who accepted the part.

I think you’re mistaking “bleating” with simply saying it like it is. And the point is that a 29 year old man doesn’t often have to make the choice between trading on his looks and turning the job down. And let’s face it, it’s more likely to be a male producer doing the choosing isn’t it?

I’m sure it’s not that hard to understand that there’s a difference between disliking a system that favours men and disliking men themselves.

Unless you’re being wilfully obtuse of course.

Yes they are lovely but have had work done most likely. Male actors who are ageing are seen as ‘rugged’ and can still be sexy.

Many male actors also have 'work' done. Brad Pitt at the Oscars was a very obvious case - definite Ken Doll look about him.

And where are these 'sexy' 'rugged' men in their 40s and 50s? I'm not seeing them. Though I see attractive, stylish women in that age group and above all the time.

Patriarchy but not just patriarchy. Men are more shallow in a choice of partner. ''Men are more visual'' we're repeatedly told.

You often see good looking women with average looking men but so rarely the othe way around.

Yes, but why do producers repeatedly cast young actresses as the love interest of men old enough to be their grandfather? Is that just some strange peccadillo producers often seem to share?

I’m sure it’s not that hard to understand that there’s a difference between disliking a system that favours men and disliking men themselves.

This ^

Men are more visual'' we're repeatedly told.

Its brainwashing, women including myself are certainly visual.

You often see good looking women with average looking men but so rarely the othe way around.

Actually the most good looking men I can think often have averagely attractive other half's

I’m sure it’s not that hard to understand that there’s a difference between disliking a system that favours men and disliking men themselves

This^

Its brainwashing, women including myself are certainly visual.

Sure are.