To think single sex schools are better and don’t cause weird feelings of otherness between boys and girls?

[littlemyyyy]

I wasn’t sent to a single sex school but my daughter certainly will be after my experiences in 5 different schools.

Essentially, boys made school hell for me and all the other girls. I went to 2 catholic schools, a private school and 2 regular state schools and it was the same everywhere.

Boys making comments on the girls appearances incessantly (especially during PE); popular girls being touched up and teachers laughing it off when told; boys generally sexualising everything all the time and just too much sexism to even begin to explain. This wasn’t all of them, obviously, but the vast majority.

I had 4 close male friends over my school years and all of them were more ‘feminine’ (and of course bullied about it). Even so any egging on by the other boys could easily push them into making the same awful sexist comments.

Furthermore I feel like many people send boys to boys schools with no qualms, but with girls schools I always hear that it’ll be ‘bitch central’ when female friendships can be so lovely and long-lasting when not viewed through the lens that all girls do is be nasty.

Also there’s many studies showing the benefits of single sex education, especially for girls who are actually at a detriment from mixed sex schooling, and no wonder.

Opinions ??

I chose to go to a single sex school and really regret it.

It was awful and the behaviour of some girls was ridiculously bad.. I also found that they behaved in a more "boy obsessed" way. Unfortunately as well it was very bitchy, a lot of bullying.

Don't know why there's this notion that boys are more misbehaved. My siblings that went to mixed sex schools would often complain of disruptive girls, in my sisters year the worst were mostly girls, my sister often hung out with the boys because it was "less dramas".

I went to a single sex school and the attitude that many of the girls there had to boys was bizarre. We did a joint musical production with a boys' school, and when the boys came over to rehearse they'd be followed around by large crowds of younger girls screaming at them as if they were pop stars. I found that sort of thing incredibly embarrassing, but was still fairly awkward when talking to boys myself, because I saw them as somehow 'other'.

The only good thing about it was that I never had a sense that some school subjects were for girls and some for boys. The drawbacks weren't worth it, unfortunately.

I went to both. Much preferred the single sex school as you didn’t have boys being over bearing and shouting down everyone. Much better environment for me.

I also found that they behaved in a more "boy obsessed" way. Unfortunately as well it was very bitchy, a lot of bullying

My mixed sex school was way worse for this.

I went to a single sex school and loved it. Im always surprised by the idea that I didnt mix with boys just because I wasnt in a class room with them from 9am to 3.30pm 5 days a week. I had a lot of male friends I hung out with outside school

Whe I went to university i was shocked at how much boys tried to take over conversations in tutorials and seemed to think I should stop talking if they interrupted me or tried to talk over me. It never occured to me I should do either and I didnt but I was surprised at how accepted it seemed to be

I then did a research job which included obsreving behaviour in a mixed comprehensive and that did really shock me The low level every day sexual bullying - all girls were bitch or slag (Im sure they saw it as banter) lifting up skirts, twanging bra straps, asking girls if they were on the blob, how big their tits were, it was something I had never encountered and it almost seemed baked in. When we talked to the girls they just shrugged and their attitude was 'boys innit' and that was before the days of smart phones and access to instant porn

might be better now of course - at least most of the uniforms now seem to allow girls to wear trousers

Minty... Maybe so for you... Definitely not the case for me and others I know. But we all have different experiences... I just know based on mine and a lot of others, I'd be more reluctant to send my daughter to an all girls school.

Also I can’t say I have issues communicating with the other sex, albeit I’m not particularly interested in them (I have male friends in the loose sense of the word but I tend to have more in common with women and I’m married so there’s no sexual interest).

This says it all to me, and underlines the reasons why I'm glad that my dd is at a co-ed school. Some of her friends from primary school went to the private girls school in our town, and they seem unable to conceive of the idea that boys and girls can have platonic friendships. All boys are seen as potential boyfriends, and the girls get very silly around them. DD sees things very differently, and just regards them as mates.

I don't think that she has encountered a huge amount of sexism in her co-ed school, but there have been some incidents e.g. boys making comments about girls being on their periods because they're a bit stroppy. On those occasions, dd has not held back at all in challenging such behavior - the boys have learnt from this and dd has actually felt empowered as a result of knowing that she didn't let it go. Obviously, I would prefer it if boys did not make comments of that nature, but I'd rather that they learn that it's not acceptable when they're young by getting set straight by their peers than taking it into the workplace later, and in some ways, dd may as well develop strategies now to deal with everyday sexism because she will almost certainly encounter it later. The thing that gives me hope is that, when the girls do call it out in school, lots of the boys will also pile on in support of their point.

I recently did some new Safeguarding training at work which focused on peer on peer abuse. I was shocked by statistics & how the rape figures were so high but I've not read much about in the press.

I went to an all-girl independent school for my entire school life, and have never regretted it. STEM subjects have never been my thing at all but for those who were interested, there was never any sense that they were a male thing. I didn't find it excessively bitchy and there obviously wasn't the added complication of competition for male attention. For those of us who cared about our looks, make-up and clothes, that was an aesthetic thing rather than sexual.

The men who've figured in any significant way in my life (father, ex-husband, current partner) have always been very decent people so I don't think it's had a detrimental effect on my relationships or judgment. The only downside, if it is one, is that I have virtually no experience of males under the age of 18, as I also have no brothers or male cousins and didn't really encounter the opposite sex of my own age until university! I also have no sons. Both daughters went to a mixed state primary and an all-girl secondary and were happy with both, and virtually all their long-term boyfriends have been OK people too.

DD sees things very differently, and just regards them as mates

So does my DD. She’s at single sex. Which then suggests that it’s personality at play not just environment?

I must say I’m beyond glad my daughter doesn’t have to deal with everyday sexism as per of her education. She’s an ardent feminist!

@AlexaShutUp I do have lots of platonic relationships with men, I’ve just never met any who I’ve really clicked with (I don’t know why, maybe it’s because I made most of my close friends at school or through my children and men don’t tend to do many play dates whereas I’ve made most of my Male friends through work or through my husband so don’t really get the same opportunity to drop all formality). Of course it could just be my personality, I don’t have any hobbies that are popular with men, the interests that I do have that are more common amongst men don’t tend give rise to friendships unless you spend a lot of time on it. Realistically there isn’t a need for me to force friendship with men (in contrast I was extremely bored during maternity and ended up putting lore effort into finding mummy friends for example) so I don’t and they don’t seem to develop into something truly close. And then obviously men are the problem to an extent too, before I married I had a lot of men who wanted to engage in conversation, hang out etc. After marriage men seem to be keen to distance themselves from me, new ones are less likely to want to spend time with me etc. There must be an elemennt of not wanting to create the wrong impression by being close to a married woman.

I went to a single sex school and I loved it.

There was very little pressure. It was no more bitchy than any other school, and appearance wasn't important at all for the school day.

It gave me a platform to explore more in music and theatre (playing male roles, singing traditionally male songs), debating and mock trials, there was no downgrading of girls' sports, just excellent female athletes being celebrated for their achievements, and science was just another lesson in which some people excelled. Our A level sciences classes had just as many pupils as other subjects.

There was a local boys' school so we would come together for some school trips/events, but many of the girls didn't know how to speak to boys if they didn't attend those mixers. I did a lot of mixed sex sport outside of school and some of my close friends were boys so it wasn't really an issue for me, but the difference was pretty noticeable. I think mixing is important, but for school I'm very glad I was in a single sex environment and IME it can be hugely beneficial provided that the children are exposed to a wider range of people outside of school.

I don’t have any expert knowledge but my understanding is that kids can do better taught separately in certain subjects. A private school near us does this method but is co-Ed. It is also a dumping ground for disaffected/troubled state school kids though so has its work cut out In other ways I’m sure.

I loved being with boys in school, romantically and friendship wise. I wouldn’t want my kids to miss out on normal male friendships which my girls school friends did. They didn’t know how to be friends with men and talk to them on the same level rather than some kind of forbidden fruit. Short lived but quite impacting at puberty and for teenage years.

Agree that we need children to learn how to work alongside the other gender as early and as normally as possible.

Haven't RTFT but did notice a pp mentioning the anecdotal statistics about under-age pregnancies being more common in all-girl schools. I've heard this in our local area about the school my daughters went to as well. This may be stating the obvious, but when people say this are they considering that virtually 100% of the pupils in an all-girl school are capable of pregnancy, whereas only 50% in a mixed school are?!

I hope my anecdotal statistic didn't offend. It was a rumour spread around the town by many people, to the point that it was widely believed. I don't actually know whether it was a true fact. Although the person who told me was a boy from the co-ed school next door.

but when people say this are they considering that virtually 100% of the pupils in an all-girl school are capable of pregnancy, whereas only 50% in a mixed school are?!

Possibly because 50% of the pupils are boys?

They didn’t know how to be friends with men and talk to them on the same level rather than some kind of forbidden fruit. Short lived but quite impacting at puberty and for teenage years

It’s a major shortcoming of parenting IMO if you don’t nurture friendships of any type out of school IMO.

@Ginfordinner - not offended at all but it's just something I've often heard of when this has been mentioned. Yes, that's what I meant about the 50%

You can make any case you want with anecdotes. There are good schools and bad schools of all types. (Also, our own personal experiences either way may not be particularly valid today).

Quick google for data on teen pregnancy in mixed v single sex schools.

This one found lower pregnancies when schools in Trinidad&Tobago were converted to single sex:
www.nber.org/papers/w22222

This reports surprise at no protective effect but doesn't say they're worse:

educationmediacentre.org/newsreactions/whats-the-evidence-on-single-sex-schools/

Although the person who told me was a boy from the co-ed school next door

A teen boy spreading less than pleasant stories about teen girls....not sure I would consider that a reliable narrator

Not an expert but I did some pastoral work with first year undergraduates at a RG uni a few years back. I met a lot of students of both sexes who had been to single sex schools who had significant problems interacting socially with the opposite sex. Some of the male students in particular displayed some very worrying attitudes/behaviours towards girls/women and had clearly never spent any actual time with them before. I guess some kids had had much more opportunity than others to hang out with the opposite sex outside of school hours.

But obviously I don't have any actual stats, just anecdata.

It’s a major shortcoming of parenting IMO if you don’t nurture friendships of any type out of school IMO.

I'm not sure how a parent would achieve that. My interests outside school were mainly quiet and solitary (reading, drawing); sport of any kind was a joke to me. The handful of boys I met in a youth club weren't of interest as friends or boyfriends. My daughters' friends even in their mixed primary were all girls, and the activities they were interested in (dance and gymnastics were the chief ones) were female-dominated. It would have taken a really major, very artificial "steer" from a parent to nurture friendships with boys in all those cases.

"It’s a major shortcoming of parenting IMO if you don’t nurture friendships of any type out of school IMO."

Are you talking about seeing school friends outside of school or opportunities to make friends that don't go to the same school? If the former, I agree with you. If the latter, the opportunities aren't always there.

Goldengroveunleaving

I more meant nurture by giving access to friendships out of school. You went to youth club - just what I meant! IMO it’s really important to give children access to more than one set of friends.

If the latter, the opportunities aren't always there

I meant the latter. If the opportunity isn’t there, then there’s not much you can do. But I think if there is an option, it should be taken.

There's unpleasantness and bullying at all schools. Groups of individuals will tussle for power.

Single sex schools send kids out not knowing how to interact with the other sex. That's a huge failing that lets you down in life.

I think mixed sex schools with the option of single-sex classes for trad male subjects like maths and science is the answer.