To think single sex schools are better and don’t cause weird feelings of otherness between boys and girls?

[littlemyyyy]

I wasn’t sent to a single sex school but my daughter certainly will be after my experiences in 5 different schools.

Essentially, boys made school hell for me and all the other girls. I went to 2 catholic schools, a private school and 2 regular state schools and it was the same everywhere.

Boys making comments on the girls appearances incessantly (especially during PE); popular girls being touched up and teachers laughing it off when told; boys generally sexualising everything all the time and just too much sexism to even begin to explain. This wasn’t all of them, obviously, but the vast majority.

I had 4 close male friends over my school years and all of them were more ‘feminine’ (and of course bullied about it). Even so any egging on by the other boys could easily push them into making the same awful sexist comments.

Furthermore I feel like many people send boys to boys schools with no qualms, but with girls schools I always hear that it’ll be ‘bitch central’ when female friendships can be so lovely and long-lasting when not viewed through the lens that all girls do is be nasty.

Also there’s many studies showing the benefits of single sex education, especially for girls who are actually at a detriment from mixed sex schooling, and no wonder.

Opinions ??

I’ve been to both

The main thing is that when a lesson goes completely out of the window, IME that was always because of a boy and it took fucking forever to get them expelled.

I swear there were some lessons it was pointless to attend on account of boy troublemakers. Not saying girls never cause trouble but I’ve certainly never seen entire lessons trashed because of them.

What I hear as an adult is that presence of girls civilises boys a bit. If I had daughters, I’d be furious that they were being used in that way.

I didn’t have any issues dealing with men in the workplace. But arguably I had both experiences....if I’d been in single sex Ed all my life, I don’t know what I would have felt.

Do many more girls do STEM subjects at single sex schools Errol?

I've just looked at the A level results published by the only single sex schools in our area (super selective grammars) and 22 did further maths at the boys school compared to 10 at the girls school.

“ When I was at school the single sex (female Catholic) had the highest abortion rate in town.”

How does anyone know though? My mixed school wasn’t catholic and our abortion rate was quite high too.🤷🏻‍♀️

There is a small but good quality body of evidence that single-sex education improves outcomes for girls. Unfortunately the same isn’t true for boys.

Sorry. No. When I lived in Qatar I worked at segregated schools, and I would NEVER send my children to one. Not only does it make the other gender some weird other, it makes the homosexual scene very aggressive for the "butch" or very submissive for the "bottom".
Gender segregation is horrible.

I went to a single sex catholic grammar. I had friends at mixed sex schools and I socialised with boys and girls outside of school. I heard the stories of what went on in some (not all!) of their schools. I am forever grateful I got to complete my education in peace away from the boys I socialised with and heard about from the other girls. every conversation was sexualised. It was awful. School was a haven from that tbh.

my DD's aren't into "girl stuff"

Neither is mine. It's maybe easier to be a female nerd in an all girls school, more of your own tribe. Activities and clubs which might be seen as 'for the boys' in a mixed school are clearly for girls in a girls school.

I just feel you are talking nonsense. Just because you had this at your school doesn't mean it goes on now!

How many years ago were you at school? Things have got better recently!

My ds's are at the local catholic school and it's nothing like you describe. Both my boys are very happy. I am happy with the pastoral care.

There is a very good independent girls school next door and plenty of the girls are very happy. Plenty of them hand boyfriends from our school, or the local private mixed school.

If you want your dd at an all girls school, great. But not for the reasons you've listed.

When I was at school the single sex (female Catholic) had the highest abortion rate in town.

Yeah that’s a load of rubbish. No one could know that. The clinics don’t publish names let alone what school they attend.

Do many more girls do STEM subjects at single sex schools Errol?

Yes, there's a very marked difference.

Oh and they hated it because the other girls were bitchy and catty which is fairly standard teenage girl behaviour but when you group hundreds of them together with zero male influence then.

How on earth does male influence make them less bitchy though? Arguably it just adds another reason for bitchiness - i.e. competing for the boys' attention. You're surely not thinking the boys are some kind of good behavioural influence on the girls? Because far more problem behaviour in school is perpetrated by the boys than the girls.
I went to a girls' school myself and have taught at boys' schools, girls' schools and mixed schools. I'd agree that single sex education benefits girls much more than boys. My dc go to a mixed comp, but I'd have gladly sent dd to a girls' school.

I spent 1 year at an all girls school in my teens and the rest in mixed schools. Tbh girls school was hell for me. All the drama, i just couldnt handle it.
But then i always got along better with boys. I had maybe 2-3 close girl friends and even there it was a lot more drama over nothing. Boys i always found easy to talk to and make friends with.

I think there's no perfect option that fits everyone. It really depends on each individual child.

I went to mixed school because I wanted too. Girls were bitchy and so were boys. Some of the boys were lovely though. I still hung out with the girls at break times though.
I have always been comfortable around men as I grew up with a brother and went to school with loads of them! It’s not normal to be in single sex environment and everyone should mix.

I had such a horrific and damaging time at my all girls' grammar school that I had a mental breakdown at the age of 16 and couldn't return to education until my 20s. The bullying was very serious and the school did nothing, the pastoral care was abysmal and unfortunately nothing has changed from what I hear. But they get good grades so nothing gets done and parents are reluctant to move their children. But as PP have said there are good schools and bad schools, both single sex and co-ed.

Aside from that, I also had developed some odd anxiety about speaking to boys and men, which took some time to overcome. But I look back on that and laugh as it seems silly now to be actually afraid of speaking to a boy.

Errr why on earth did you keep moving schools OP?
We deliberately didn’t enter our ds for the grammar school tests because all our grammar schools are single sex and we knew that wouldn’t suit him at all.

I have always been comfortable around men as I grew up with a brother and went to school with loads of them!

I have always been comfortable around men, had no brother and went to school with none of them!

Just goes to show how different educational approaches suit different people.

My sons are at single sex schools and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I also work in a single sex school and much prefer it! They are all doing very well and still socialise with girls through their youth club and out of school choir.

Mixed sex all the way. There’s no single sex option for us and I wouldn’t have chosen it if there was.

Life isn’t single sex and I’d rather my dds learned how to deal with boys in the relative safety of their school than encountering them properly for the first time when they are alone at uni.

My DM was House Mistress at an all girls school, boarding & non boarders. The girls were obsessed & I mean obsessed, with boys. They'd hang out the shower block windows in towels waving at boys in the park opposite. Bananarama had half naked backing dancers on telly one night which didn't even raise an eyebrow for me & my sister & my Mother came home in shock, saying "they were totally hysterical over men with their shirts off, it got so weird, I had to switch the TV off to get them calmed down". Some of the non boarders left at 16 & came to my State sixth form, where they all went off the rails over boys & did dismally in their A Levels. My state secondary had a few idiot boys who'd pass comments on girls out loud but they were a group of around 3, who most people despised anyway & they skived off most of the time which was all good.

@ErrolTheDragon

At the girls school they simply didn't run chess club or mixed football (obviously)

Dd is at a top university studying stem and came top in her mixed school in maths. The girls school has terrible stem results. It's what suits the individual, dd prefered playing football with the boys at break to gossiping with the girls

I'm reading with interest as where I live the state secondary schools are single sex. It does worry me as I went to a mixed comp and turned out fine and had a good experience, still have close friends of both genders and I'm mid 40s now!

my DD's aren't into "girl stuff" and always had male friends, they had the option of single sex and we rejected it

What is ‘girl stuff’? You’d have girls of all personalities and inclinations. This is kind of sexist and it’s a shame your daughters can’t see past stereotypes and prefer boys because of it.

When I was at school the single sex (female Catholic) had the highest abortion rate in town

How would you even know? This sounds like nonsense. What, do the local schools publish their abortion rates alongside their GCSE rankings?

There is a saying from the local boys school about the two local girls schools 'both girls put out, but girls from school x write you a thank you letter after' The same boys say very little about the girls at the state co-ed as a group. It did put me off single sex schooling a bit, especially the boys school!

Can I ask how old you are OP? I am in my 40’s and was at both single & mixed schools. I recognise your experience well enough but my children are now at mixed & their experience is very different. Yes, there are some gits still around but on the whole, I find the school environment to be much softer & respectful than when I went.

Life isn’t single sex and I’d rather my dds learned how to deal with boys in the relative safety of their school than encountering them properly for the first time when they are alone at uni.

This^ always baffles me.

You’re right, life isn’t single sex. But life doesn’t begin at university. It begins at birth. Which means you have 18 years to socialise them with boys and men yourself. School isn’t the only option for socialising with the opposite sex. Do you really not socialise your own children?