To be terrified by the Australian rugby coach setting his family on fire?

[SeasonallySnowyPeasant]

In brief: earlier today an Australian ex-rugby player was in the car with his wife and their three children, poured petrol over her and set her alight. She, he and the children all died. The parents were ending their marriage and disputing custody over the children.

It’s absolutely horrific and I just wonder why there seem to be no depths to which some men - and it almost always is men - will sink when it comes to asserting their dominance over women and children. Throwing acid over them seems to be the newest ‘thing’ over the past 3 years. Assault, rape, stalking, harassment, murder are so common as to be un-newsworthy.

It scares me. My exH was abusive and I have a non-molestation order to prevent him from continuing the abuse. At the back of my mind I worry about him taking something I do/say as pushing him too far and being seriously hurt or killed. What if he decides one day to kill our DC?

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

I attended a recent event where Luke and Ryan Hart spoke about their abusive father, who shot their mother and sister and then himself. I also met them afterwards, they are astonishingly brave and remarkable young men. They are very clear that it falls to men to look at the problem of male violence. The White Ribbon website has more about this approach.

They also spoke at length about how their family's murders were reported in the press. The emphasis was on their father, how it was all such a shock, he was thought to be such a nice guy. There was talk of his poor state of mind as he dealt with his wife and daughter leaving him (in reality they were liberated from their home by Luke and Ryan when the father was at work). One article even suggested that his actions in shooting them could almost be understood given he was so upset.

If this is murder, I hope I'm proved wrong, that this case in Australia is not reported from the point of view of a poor estranged father who was at his wits end, and felt he had nothing to live for.

Hear hear @AnneOfTeenFables. A Prevent programme for male violence would be eye-opening indeed.

This sort of pity party crap for multiple murder era is the media. A lot of stupid people believe it too.

Mercifully any right thinking person knows that there is quantifiable and qualitative difference between a woman with post natal depression and a man who immolated his wife and children. There is a difference, and it is just that it is taken into account.

This is not a “feminist” view. It’s about the facts and circumstance that applies to any person. It is the law.

Half the idiots on this thread claiming moral equivalence between infanticide and what is multiple murder would be the first to make the most of sick distinctions or want their friends and family to have the benefit of the doubt. Give thanks that there are people who are prepared to think about things in more depth.

It’s also being reported by the BBC that the alleged murderer stabbed himself. There are no words. A murderer and a coward.

I've come to the conclusion it's better to ignore the NAMALTers. They're like flat-earthers. They don't want facts or reasoned discussion. They want to waste time and derail. Let them wallow in their ignorance and idiocy, and let's hope the law eventually catches up with all the attempts to normalise and minimise male violence.

nicenew Luke and Ryan's work is
very impressive. They are doing so much to try to combat all the factors that contributed to their mum and sister's abuse and murders; and the irresponsible, misleading reporting that followed.

A very thought provoking post Lex.

I apologise for my "get out of jail" post.

PPS and PPD are medical conditions that produce predictable behaviours, they can happen to any women who has given birth, and the risk is one reason why the UK has health visitors and mother and baby psychiatric units.

Family annihilators are usually men and fit one of four distinct profiles, they are driven by anger, disappointment, a loss of face, or a loss of control.
www.wired.co.uk/article/family-killers

Same here EntirelyAnonymised. I had regular nightmares about my dad until I was 40. My mum talked about her fear of him 30 years after they split.

Men killing women is relatively rare, but the fear that abusers put into many women isn't. My ex used to threaten to put me "6 feet under." The character in my nightmares changed from my dad to my ex.

@Charley50.

Domestic abuse kills 15 times more people than terrorism in the U.K. and when we say people, we mean women and children because they are the overwhelming victims.

Women are at far greater risk from the man who shares their bed then they ever are of a terrorist attack.

Some men (not all but far too many) cannot deal with their partner leaving them and would rather kill than let them leave peaceably.

One woman I admire hugely is Rosie Batty (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosie_Batty)
She lost her son, who was murdered by her estranged partner- he could not have him, so no-one should- but she has done amazing things since her bereavement to promote anti family violence.

But she was still berated for her amazing work by a misogynistic pig who is a high ranking union rep. Apparently he thought her campaign meant that poor men (no longer allowed to beat their wives and kids freely) had fewer rights.

@nicenewdusters
I live fifteen minutes away from where Hannah Baxter and her three children were murdered yesterday morning. Last night, the local news was reporting on the stress of their struggling business, his previous sporting career and briefly alluded to their recent separation. They then ended the segment with links to DV helplines. It was very clear from eye witness reports that he had murdered them all but they refused to frame it in this way.
Meanwhile, the Courier Mail (local tabloid rag) posted the story to their Facebook account. Cue a number of men but ALSO OTHER WOMEN (?!?!) defending his actions as a father denied access to his children.

I have a facebook friend. Her ex killed her 2 young children in the bath. He is alive and in jail for life. He sent her vile letters from prison. I found it hard to believe until I googled and read the news reports.
He was a vile man, who did this to hurt his ex who he believed had another man.
She is the strongest, bravest person I know.
Mothers that do this usually have some sort of psychosis and do it to "save" their children. Men do it to take revenge.

A Prevent programme for male violence would be eye-opening indeed.

Something similar has been trialled recently and shown to be effective.

"Drive, which operated in Essex, West Sussex and south Wales from 2016 to 2019, involved one-to-one counselling sessions with offenders - most of whom were white men while nearly half were involved in ongoing legal proceedings in the criminal or civil courts.

They were given help on building relationships, controlling their impulses and developing empathy and understanding of the impact of abuse."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51177628

It’s amazing how despite the horror , sheer horror of his actions people will make excuses and blame it on ‘sadness’ and ‘missing his kids’

It’s almost more appalling than what he did

Tens a penny they were having custody issues because the wife has clicked that he was fucking abusive and messing with the kids heads . Would love to hear what her family and friends have to say . But of course they will all have major and long lasting trauma and PTSD after this . What a thing

This is a report I've just read.

Pretty clear what a violent abuser he was.

Just sickening, and those on the thread bleating NAMALT, DFO.

au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/clementine-ford-hannah-clarke-brisbane-car-burning-044540691.html

Why do men get away with killing women – is there an amnesty on male violence?
Julie Bindel

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/20/men-killing-women-cuts-refuges-legal-aid

As a feminist campaigner, I am often asked why women are still targeted by male rage. Our successes have been significant: were it not for feminist campaigning, rape in marriage in a number of countries would not be a crime and there would be no specific laws against domestic violence. But why, then, has this not led to fewer women dying?

Strangulation was a factor in 29% of the 2018 femicides, compared with 24.9% between 2009–15

let us never forget that it’s men who are are the real victims here

Struggling to think of a case where a woman murdered her kids to get back at her ex. Or indeed killed her ex. Or threw acid over him. They sometimes get back at the "other woman" but I can't think of any well known case where a woman murdered her ex.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/20/over-half-of-uk-women-killed-by-men-die-hands-current-ex-partner

Morning reading

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8022709/Killer-Rowan-Baxter-stalked-wife-kidnapped-kids-Brisbane-car-fire.html

That's a great article Neurotrashwarrior - thanks for sharing.

I wonder actually if we need a resource thread to dispel some of the myths about family annihilators, some of which we've already had on this thread.

Myth 1 - no one knew the kind of man he was, all his friends and family thought he was a great guy
Myth 2 - he just snapped

Beware, that article is graphic.

No shades of grey there.

He poured petrol on the children. Get it, apologists? He bought petrol, set his alarm for the morning, got up, got dressed, stalked his ex to the school run at her parents house, got in her car, and POURED PETROL ON THE KIDS.

That is the reality of the family annihilator.

Clymene, exactly.

Myth 3 - Coercive control is undesirable but largely harmless. He is unlikely to go on to kill the wife if she leaves.

Given how many of these annihilator great-guys were extremely controlling and emotionally abusive - and the murder(s) come out of almost no where for those around them - extremely controlling behaviour should be seen as an enormous risk factor when the partner attempts to break free and afterwards.

I also note that very often the woman almost always knows instinctively what is coming to her and fears it, often telling people around her and the authorities ... to little or no assistance. Often it's thought she's exaggerating and "he wouldn't go that far". To voice such concerns actually causes her to be labelled as the problem. Then she, and sometimes the kids, is murdered.

A woman's instinctive terror in a domestic violence context shouldn't continue to be minimised and ignored. This is why women stay. This is why.

I hate the phrase “murder-suicide” as well. I’m struggling to articulate really why though? It just seems to make it sound less serious than just “murder”.