To be terrified by the Australian rugby coach setting his family on fire?

[SeasonallySnowyPeasant]

In brief: earlier today an Australian ex-rugby player was in the car with his wife and their three children, poured petrol over her and set her alight. She, he and the children all died. The parents were ending their marriage and disputing custody over the children.

It’s absolutely horrific and I just wonder why there seem to be no depths to which some men - and it almost always is men - will sink when it comes to asserting their dominance over women and children. Throwing acid over them seems to be the newest ‘thing’ over the past 3 years. Assault, rape, stalking, harassment, murder are so common as to be un-newsworthy.

It scares me. My exH was abusive and I have a non-molestation order to prevent him from continuing the abuse. At the back of my mind I worry about him taking something I do/say as pushing him too far and being seriously hurt or killed. What if he decides one day to kill our DC?

Why won’t men sort their lives out and put an end to this horrific violence?

"I suspect, from what I've read of these dreadful crimes over the years, that most women who murder their children fall into the final category."

Do we not need to get away from this narrative/assumption also?

I have no problem with this being discussed as a male problem. If the stats above were correct it means that 5 out of 6 family annihilators are men. You'd have to be blind to not see that as a gendered issue.

I also understand the disgust at the media treatment of such men being described as "good men/loving fathers" when they've literally stabbed their family to death or in this case burned them alive, it's abhorrent.

I don't see why their is a move to still preserve sympathy for the small percentage of family annihilators who are women and to make them a tragic figure rather than a violent one.

I'm not here to shout NAMALT, it doesn't offend me as a man that people want to discuss an issue around men as a class/group. But I can see why people take issue with the inconsistency around this issue when people want to shut down the "he was a good man" eulogies but then look to absolve murderous women.
Even if their motivation is different, the outcome is just as evil

@Lockheart

_Then clearly there's no need for a proper investigation if it's being reported in the news. Apparently you already know exactly what happened so the police can just read the papers. /S

Honestly your version of events does not sound unlikely and is also what I would assume has happened, but you can't speculate like that in order to make a point._

This... this above comment to someone whose been through trauma, who is just talking about something, your need to attack, to put down, to assert your horrible self. This is the type of person that cause such harm in our world. Spiteful, narcissistic personalities that just don't know or care the damage a little comment like that can cause. Be kind or F**k off.

This poor woman was at such a vulnerable time and any risk assessment would tell you this is when it's most dangerous. Dealing with someone who has got so desperate is really difficult as he knew he had nothing to lose.There are interventions and devices such as skyguard, panic buttons etc which can help.

Erm.. just saying..

Another who likes Nearly Granny's post.

It is the responsibility of men to end violence against women. And it isn't just women who would benefit from a society where there is no violence against them. Those of you saying NAMALT, do you want to have friends/family who are violent to women? Do you like reading news stories like this, or about rape etc? I'm going to assume that you would rather not have that violence in against women in society. Therefore, do what you can. Publicly condemn stories like this, talk to people who make worrying comments, speak openly about how you value women and would hate to see them devalued and hurt. Patrick Stewart has dedicated his life to this. He sees it as his responsibility to campaign to end violence against women - and his campaigns are targeted towards men. There's a role model right there for you.

It has been said many times on here when a woman has harmed her children. Even Catherine Flack got sympathy and she was up for DV. A man wouldn’t. To say you haven’t seen it is a lie

Sorry were comparing this horrific crime to what CF was accused of?! I can’t believe you’re even daring to suggest women get sympathy and men don’t.

We have MANY violent men still being celebrated today, you’re being extreme disingenuous or blinkered to this. Just look up famous men who have been accused/convicted of domestic violence and how many of them still have a career..

@GCAcademic

Ah, ok. Thanks for the clarity.

An aspect of being autistic is that I invariably tend to focus on the logic of any argument or debate, and sometimes don't quite see the nuance. It doesn't mean I'm oblivious to it, it's just not often the very first thing I pick up on. I often find it difficult to ascertain exactly what someone is referring to without a direct quote, so apologies if I came across as aggressive or belligerent, that wasn't my intent at all.

Shocked, genuinely, at the 83% figure, but I suppose that stands to reason when women are overwhelmingly the primary carers for children.

Family annihilators are almost always male. Exceptionally rare for a woman to do this.
Violence against women , and sexual violence, is also overwhelmingly a male crime.
So when people jump onto a thread to Not All Men it makes it seem as though this isn’t just a male problem, whereas by and large it is.
No, Not All Men kill women, but the people who do kill women are almost always MALE.
About time more men put some effort into trying to diminish male violence- challenging other men who make casual misogynistic comments, or “jokes” about their girlfriends etc. I have seen otherwise perfectly nice men ignore vile comments from their mates or colleagues. If men are so affronted when it is pointed out that this sort of violence is a male thing, then why aren’t they affronted enough to make a stand on the smaller things in daily life that lead to larger acts of misogyny ? I really think violence against women will never lessen until men start to tackle it within their families and friendship groups.

@AngelsSins
Any proof? Can you find a story about a woman burning her husband and children alive in a car intentionally along with comments that support that statement?

Gotta agree with you on that!

Those of you saying NAMALT, do you want to have friends/family who are violent to women? Do you like reading news stories like this, or about rape etc?

I honestly think it doesn't even register with some people. My husband is a decent person. But it was really interesting to see his reaction to that recent case where a man was convicted for a large number of rapes of other men. He was so shocked and horrified by this. Genuinely appalled and incredulous. The possibility of men being raped. It was like he had never stopped to consider what many women experience, and actively try to avoid. All the stories we've sat though on the news of gang rapes, the girl who was raped twice in one night by two different, totally unconnected drivers, child rape. Apparently none of it registered because he just couldn't relate to it.

@Jarvisisgod

You are on dangerous ground here my friend.

Without doubt there is a very strong element of disordered thinking going on in the mind of anyone who commits this kind of crime. But statistically, people with serious mental health issues are a higher risk to themselves and more at risk from others than they are a risk to others.

Perhaps if it could be examined more thoroughly when someones behaviour escalates from low level control and abuse to more serious acts it would be a start.

And perhaps if certain behaviours weren't minimised or excused because they are seen in isolation, or just when under stress, or just after a drink a pattern could be identified and intervention started earlier.

Perhaps if victims didn't have their concerns reflected back on them and questions like "Well, what did you do to elicit that response?" weren't society's default more headway would be made.

My one point regarding the sexes - statistically, more men carry out acts like these than women. When women do it, there are often either documented mental health issues, extreme stresses in their lives, or they are suffering from post partum psychosis. Of course men are not immune to the effect of extreme stress, however, as mentioned upthread, often there is a component of ego at play in their actions.

Many people are currently living in a hostile environment - economically, emotionally, etc. That so very few people take this route of harming those around them to express their anguish, and the fact that those that do are more often men than women, suggests that those individuals should be fully evaluated to see why it happens, and if common factors can be identified and addressed it may save the lives of spouses and children who do not deserve to be collateral damage in the race to be even handed and understanding.

metro.co.uk/2015/02/13/mother-burnt-her-three-children-alive-in-shed-as-dad-listened-to-screams-on-the-phone-5062029/

I see nothing in that report about her mental health

Hear hear sirvix

www.thesun.co.uk/news/8913453/mum-burns-son-daughter-alive-russia/

Not this one

I reckon he must have been mentally unwell to do that, just like those who go on shooting rampages and then kill themselves.

Suffer the poor little children:(

Yep, not seeing sympathy for the women there, how -un-surprising.

nypost.com/2017/10/16/mom-accused-of-killing-her-babies-by-cooking-them-alive-in-oven/

And another. No mental health mentioned

But frightening to find three examples of women burning their children alive so swiftly

Does anyone remember the outrage about convicted rapist Mike Tyson getting a role in the Hangover? No, me either, but we’re meant to believe men are the ones judged harshly. Ok....

Yet another

www.premiumtimesng.com/regional/ssouth-east/367434-woman-who-burned-co-wife-seven-stepchildren-alive-sentenced-to-death.html

Angel I do recall outrage for his first acting job but yes, it very quickly got forgotten. Mind you, an assault conviction didn't harm Cheryl Tweedy/Cole/Double-Barrelled's career. Took off more after.

@Justaboy

That seems a fairly reasonable assertion, given that mentally well people, do not, generally speaking, embark on murderous/suicidal rampages.

The problem with murder suicides is you can't interview the perpetrator afterwards to try and ascertain what on earth was going on, but I hope the autopsy examines this killer's brain if at all possible, because as I alluded to earlier, there seems to be an increasing recognition in other countries that athletes who play impact and concussive sports display an alarming propensity for bizarre and criminal behaviours in their 40's and 50's.

Angel I do recall outrage for his first acting job but yes, it very quickly got forgotten

Didn’t stop him getting a second role and the film was pretty popular so must have been very minor.

I’m not denying some female abusers have not had their career ended, I’m disputing this idea that only women get sympathy. It’s utter bollocks.

But frightening to find three examples of women burning their children alive so swiftly

The wonders of Google, eh? As I said above, 17% of family annihilators are female. No one is disputing that they exist.

Reading the usual excuses and derailers, I'd suggest that actually if the police have time to register hate incidents where no crime has been committed but words hint at views that may encourage or obscure crimes, then they should take a hardline attitude to the people who trot out NAMALT and excuse and condone male violence.

There's no reason for people to excuse male violence and work hard to obscure it unless they think their opinion is more important than the lives that have been lost; or unless they think male feelings are more important than the lives of women and children. And if they think either of those things, then I'd quite like them to be on a register. I'd quite like the police, the legal establishment and the government to acknowledge that those myths generating from the incel and MRA communities that they monitor, are red flags and should be treated seriously. I'd like them to have an equivalent but improved version of the Prevent programme in schools focused on healthy relationships, recognising male violence and a zero tolerance policy on enablers and excusers.
Because the current policy of turning a blind eye, offering thoughts and prayers after incidents, and acting as though male feelings are as important as other people's lives, isn't working.

Fucking hell. You really do have to be a special kind of arsehole to trawl the internet for stories of women killing their children when we know that over 80% of FA are men.

We're having a conversation about male violence here Seth. If you'd like to talk about the vanishing small number of cases where women are the perpetrators, perhaps you could start a different thread.