...to think the Samaritans isn't always the best intervention for those in crisis?

[AwkwardPigeon]

I'm just getting sick of the half-hearted attempts to help people suffering with their mental health on social media, all of these prescriptive tweets and FB posts with the addendum of the Samaritans phone number.

As a society we really need to be doing more than just directing all suicidal people to the Samaritans, I'm not doubting it's a useful lifeline to some in a time of need but it definitely has its limitations. I question its effectiveness in comparison to other interventions like face-to-face regular counselling sessions which unfortunately there are very long waiting lists for under the NHS and sadly many people if they were suicidal would (and probably do) take their own lives before getting a referral.

The Samaritans service have helped me in the past to a degree when, although not suicidal, I was struggling considerably with my feelings around specific events however I did get the impression they were scared to give any actual advice. Another time I rang them the most fed up-sounding man ever answered the phone and I just hung up because I sensed I wouldn't be able to open up to him. I think it's a lottery like many other services in that whom you get through to depends on the quality of help you receive and the level of optimism you feel once the call ends.

Also, call me cynical but I just think it's so easy for individuals to push the burden onto the Samaritans when we shouldn't really be relying on a charity largely funded by donations from the public to fix everyone's mental health problems and prevent suicides. There are so many other agencies that need to play a part too and us as individuals in helping those we know rather than signposting them to a charity to speak to a stranger. Am I being too harsh?!

And again, the point that many people are trying to make is not that the Samaritans are shit or that people shouldn’t call them; but that they have a very specific scope and shouldn’t just be the tick box referral.

As they say - it's good to talk.
Talking is usually a two-way conversation however.
Not a monologue as someone else described it.

For some people, they are helpful. For some people, they are not. We should be allowed to provide feedback and discuss the service and whatever alternatives there are out there.

All the Facebook posts are shit. I think it would be extremely rare that someone who is that depressed would reach out because of a post they saw on Facebook. It’s just everyone jumping on the bandwagon, probably because they feel guilty for harassing celebs previously. Makes me

If this thread is taken down I'll be most annoyed, as I have every intention of sending a link to it to my MP.

The Samaritans are volunteers who are there to listen. They can't tell you want to do, but they can try to help you work out what you want to do, by asking non-judgemental questions.

If you decide you want to kill yourself, they are not allowed to stop you, they will stay on the line and stay with you. If at any point you change your mind, they will get an ambulance to you (provided you've given them enough details for them to work out where you are), but if you want to die, they are not permitted to override your wishes.

And these are all volunteers who have jobs, families, all the usual commitments. To be a Samaritan, you have to commit to a lot of antisocial hours on a regular basis, and you have to potentially listen to people killing themselves because your training won't let you intervene unless the callers ask you to.

A bit more respect for what they do is needed, I think.

They are there when no one else is (or when you won't let anyone else be) and when you feel like your heart will explode with grief/sadness because you're holding everything in to protect everyone else and no one has protected you. They don't 'talk' you down off a ledge, but they help you talk yourself down. In the long run, that's more empowering anyway.

I think the comparison to the RNLI is a good one. If there was a crises of sea accidents and at the same time cutbacks in whatever government services exist we wouldn't blame the RNLI. We would be saying why aren't there more government services available, where is the Navy with their experts and top quality equipment?

That's not to say we shouldn't listen if someone says they used the service in a time of need and it didn't help. Within the limits of budget available the service can always be improved by feedback into what works.

I won't name my MP as he is associated with the invention of a system which is reputed to have caused many a suicide. But you can't just pick which MP you contact unfortunately. You have to contact your own one or they can't represent you if you're not in their constituency.

I think they are of use ,but cant solve all the problems just like that ! they provide a listening ear .Many people find it easier to talk to someone anoymously .Maybe about deeply personal issues ,than a close friend .Counselling is helpful of course, but there are long waiting lists and it is expensive if you go privately .Even if they save just one person from taking their own life ,when at 3 am there is no one to talk to then thats a good thing .Mental Health Budgets under this govt are stretched thin and massively underfunded as well .

If you want to compare it to the RNLI, ok fine, I'll continue with the comparison.
Can you see that some of us are saying that the Samaritans for some of us, are the equivalent of you calling the RNLI and they coming out and sailing around you saying 'Ahoy they're! WE'RE LISTENING!!' and not actually doing anything?

I'm not sure what the answer is either. I think if you are extremely depressed then you need to see a GP or be sectioned (not sure if this the right word) but put in a place where you are supported monitored and helped. These places are not really available easily as we know. There are simply no spaces which is the biggest problem.

If someone has had enough and has made up their own minds that they can't carry on. They've tried and they are focused on suicide. I think they do it and there's sadly Nothing at that point we can do. It's no longer a cry for help.

We had a cousin do it in June. He was mid forties. Family loved him. Knew he was depressed. He had two kids and grandchildren. Remarried two years ago. He didn't tell any of his family he was living in a caravan park because his new wife was being a cow to him about his grandkids. She wouldn't let his stay but let hers. He loved his Kids and she was stopping him having a relationship with them.

He was ringing people the night before he did it. One was my brother. He told my brother he was listening to the rain and my brother said I'll come and see you Saturday and we will go out (this was Thursday night) my brother lives two hours from him but could tell he was fed up. Certainly no idea he was that low. The next day he didn't show up at work. His boss rang his family. A member of his family found out where he was staying. Went to check on him.MNHQ has edited to remove detail. He was ready for work showered and had made coffee. Then he took his life. It turned out he had been sorting things for a month so his kids didn't have to sort money etc. So he very much was going to do it and not let anyone know it had hit that point. He had put on a brave face and a show for everyone. It doesn't make any sense to his kids because they loved him to pieces.

I also dont think these statuses and tagged photos will help anyone. Because nobody in that mess is going to ring Paula of Facebook because they remember she shared that status the day Caroline flack died.

What we can do as people is take the pressure of eachother and ourselves. There are alot of great things in the world. But we are all trapped in ways that we wasn't twenty years ago. Social media is a big problem. Seeing other people coping in life. Other people showing the best bits of life. Everyone can see everyone's lives in detail now. We know when you see a doctor. We know what your house looks like. We know where you go and what you do. We saw your kids picture when they were an hour old. We know every thing your child did and when because you told us. It's absolutely scary how much of ourselves we give away. We are all guilty of faking it. Adding a filter. Pretending we love cleaning and styling our homes. Why doesn't anyone (apart from the unmumsy mum) show the truth. The pots in the sink. The mess. The struggles with the kids. Why can't people stop filtering their faces. I can't go on my FB and find a girl just smiling in her picture. She's always hiding behind a pair of bunny ears or star halos. The reality is we are all ashamed to show ourselves as we are. It's so sad we hide behind a filter now because why would we want to show what we actually look like. This is just one area of a problem.

Then finances are another huge problem. It is so hard to find a job. It's hard to pay for things. Two adults often need to work to scrape by. There's more and more people needing foodbanks and homeless people are becoming more and more a common sight. That shouldn't be happening in 2020.

Also not everyone has understanding people around them. I'm ok mentally. Occasionally I get abit anxious. Nothing rescue remedy can't sort out. I don't have a mother figure in my life like many do. Mines hard work and never built me up. She's never hugged me. She's hard to talk too. I don't have anyone really in emergencies. I've been poorly the last week. It's been horrendous realising I can't get like this again because my children need me. Thankfully my partner's job allowed him to work here and do the school runs. I dont easily have a family member I can rely on. This is where my anxiety comes from. The truth is my mum wouldn't notice me. She would never get a taxi to my house to help me out with the kids. Let alone pop round for a drink and be there for me. If someone's low and also has the lack of support I have then I can see how they get to a point of dispair.

Life's incredibly sad and unfair. There is definitely a lack of services available for MH and Facebook becomes a huge hypocrit when these things happen.

@mehooha A better analogy would be them sailing round when you're in the ocean, panicking, and calming you down to the point where you realise if you take off that heavy coat, it won't weigh you down (it's not keeping you warmer, it's making you sink in the water) and if you stop wailing, you'll notice there is in fact a dingy right next to you, and you could easily climb up.

Fannia Literally no one on this thread is blaming the Samaritans for the mental health crisis. Other users are simply sharing where the charity hasn’t worked for them.

returnofthecat - no unfortunately - because there is no interaction apart from them telling you that they're listening.

I have experience of working in mental health services for many years and also of volunteering with the Samaritans. I agree that Mental health services are in crisis and that the Samaritans aren't an alternative. We all need to be lobbying for better mental health services. The Samaritans can't plug the gaps but they do provide a 24 hour service to which isolated, upset or suicidal people can reach out day or night. When we feel at our worst it is often having a friend to talk to that helps, feeling alone magnifies things. Samaritans are just that friend, they are not psychologists. In both professional services and the Samaritans there is variation depending on which individual you talk to, people don't always gel with a therapist and it is the same with a volunteer. I have heard other Samaritans on the phone and some just listen and reflect (as per the training) others engage more and give feedback. One attraction of the Samaritans is that professional services are part of a web of safeguarding and communication. As Samaritans don't know who you are you can say anything in confidence. I think it is a scandal that Samaritans are being advertised as the go to service. It is like using St John's ambulance brigade as an alternative to A&E. but that doesn't mean the service has no value, it is just that people are being led to expect it to be something it isn't.

As someone who is very involved with Samaritans, I've found it useful to read this thread and gain different perspectives, including the experiences and approaches that people have found unhelpful, some of which do sound like bad practice (e.g. allowing a conversation to be too one sided or sounding uncaring). For anyone who doesn't know much about us, I hope you wouldn't be put off giving the service a try if you felt it might help. I agree, though, that Samaritans is just one of many organisations, offering a specific service (which doesn't include advice or problem solving) and that we should be wary about 'pushing' it at people as a magic solution for all problems.

This is just a question to those saying that the Samaritans don't do anything. What would you like them to do? It would be useful to know so it isn't just a rhetorical question.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s terrible that this is often the main support offered to those in a crisis. Mental health support is severely lacking in many parts of the UK

redcarbluecar - It would be useful if you could provide some of the feedback to the service.

I think they must be a wonderful service to some people. But same as previous posters have noted, when I rang them, they weren't helpful for me. In fact after coming off the phone to them I MNHQ deletion of detail

As you can see it didn't work. MNHQ deletion of detail by the time I'd googled it, the "moment" had passed. Thank fuck! My kids would have found me coming home from their dads. Selfish cow.

I would never ring them again. I wanted to ring someone else inside of my Bestie who is always there. I now ring my Bestie. She never calls me draining.

Maypole. I expected them to talk. To suggest something - anything!

Even idle chit chat would have been useful. Until the moment had passed.

Paintedmaypole just talk back, so it feels like someone is listening and at the end of the phone. I have had the experience of recounting a long explanation about why I am feeling the way I'm feeling and just nothing, no response at all. It's not about getting advice, and no one but no one has suggested that is what they should be doing, just normal human interaction. Not being able to say, 'that sounds very hard for you' as a previous PP was told not to do when volunteering, seems ridiculous to me. It's just basic empathy, not advice-giving.

Redcarblue, thankyou for that post. I am really concerned about people who are trying to get this thread pulled, or saying people shouldn't be allowed to post concerns in case it puts people off. Organisations that try to shut down feedback are a cause for concern to me. I volunteered for 10 years for a charity, many of the people using our services were in crisis, we did some good work but we often got it very wrong. Your post has reassured me

If they don't speak or engage at all that is bad practice. In the training I was told to speak less, allow more silence etc. but there is obviously a middle way. I will feed some of this discussion back to my local group. Good counsellors don't advise either but people shouldn't feel they are getting no active response.

I've been on that bridge, looking down into those waters, on several occasions.
I'm years beyond that time. I don't hear those voices. I don't feel that force pushing me towards darkness anymore. I live a life I couldn't be more grateful for. And I recognise each day as the best day.
Mind, Samaritans, my GP, my DH, did nothing at all and everything in the world to save me. I had to get there myself. Nobody and no other organisation could make me stop being suicidal. That was on me. But I know I would not have found the courage to climb out of the hole I was in without the support around me; support like Mind, support like Samaritans, the support of friends and family. I drew my strength from them. I was lucky. It could have so easily gone in a different direction.