Father's for justice...WT actual F

[Smithtylater]

Just checked out their instagram page (f4jofficial) after this Caroline Flack/kerry Katona thing. Wtf have they become? They seem like an extremist group trolling female celebrities with gossip nonsense .They seem to hate everyone with a vagina! I remember when they were a few blokes climbing up buildings dressed up as batman. And they are a 'charity'!!

F4J seem to care more about attacking women than trying to make things fairer, especially for male abuse survivors. Didn't some of them have restraining orders or records of DV?

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings. Atleast his access is supervised. I hope the police who took the child are never involved in any domestic abuse callouts. Disgusting thing to do.

Travis1 GinDaddy

I think it's fair to say that there are plenty of petty, even abusive women denying access to fathers. But the organisation Father's for Justice hounding random celebrities on social media and then still getting given time and attention in Westminster is ridiculous.

Maybe it's time there was a Parent's for Justice.

Had a brief and unpleasant look
It’s just a Load of ‘bitch’ and ‘cunt’ comments

Clearly the place to be for abusers hey

Their Instagram page is horrendous. They accuse Meghan Markle of ‘marriage alienation, tore into Caroline Flack and their latest target appears to be Chantelle Houghton. They just hate women, it’s plain to see.

As far as I know they started in the 80's (that's when I first became aware of them in my area of Scotland) and they were awful then.
They were organised themselves like a paramilitary group and helped men kidnap their children where no contact Court Orders were in place, 2 that I know went to prison (short sentences). They then settled into being a run of the mill misogynist group but had another 15 minutes of fame helping men to avoid maintenance payments when the CSA was first set up.

Yes, I agree they are hideous.

So are mothers who weaponise their children in divorces.

Both are unreasonable.

Awful group of women haters

Always have been

Anyone who hates the other parent more than they love their own children, either man or woman, both are bloody abhorrent.

My ex was cruel to me in our break up, but our DD doesnt need to know the details. I've never said a bad word about him and I wouldnt.

They are A bunch of misogynists imo.
There’s a hell of a lot more men who don’t pay a penny and don’t want to see their kids and women just crack on and survive whilst they twat around. Women have fuck all rights in trying to get fair treatment on many many levels.

In most cases (not all) the woman and man make a decision to have a child they split up and some woman can be pretty vile using their children as pawns. It's not always the case a dad gets access. Perhaps if both parents behaved like adults then groups like this wouldn't need to exist. Sometimes it's the only way to be heard.

Absolutely vile bunch of haters. If they are a charity, should be investigated by Charity Commission and have registration withdrawn. I've never seen one of them I'd willingly give custody or care to.

It's not always the case a dad gets access.

So you go to court and engage with the system. You don't whinge into a misogynistic echo chamber about how hard done by you are and that your ex is a slut that used you for your sperm and now has the brass neck to expect you to support your child

There's a reason these men have no contact with their children. They're all creeps.

@BreastedBoobilyToTheStairs

Isn't that the point though - that F4J, whether right or wrong, feel that "engaging with the system" leads to inadequate and often divisive outcomes for the father?

There may be feckless spiteful women if course, but being a single mum is so much bloody hard work, hard financially and generally a ball ache - I have a decent relationship with my xh and he's a decent father if one who has happily outsourced parenting to me and does the bare minimum

Most mothers would love their children's father's to be part of their lives to provide another safe and comfortable home at which to spend time with their father and with whom to share the financial burden.

If a woman's gone "nope. You're not coming near, go talk to the court" that gives me a fairly strong idea of how much worse she thinks the child's life would be if the man was involved, and starting from that point of the daily lone grind, must have to be pretty awful.

The courts give a woman power which she might never have had, no wonder feckless men fear the court.

They are misogynistic and very dangerous in my opinion. I thought they were making a fair point when they first donned their Superman suits but then I looked into them and realized they were supporting men who had abused their wives and were not good fathers, like they were using the campaign to assert more control. And it has made courts less likely to be cautious with abusers as fathers, which is pretty terrifying.

All these people who "know dads who were kept from their children" - of course that's what they tell you.

I have a friend who split with her financially and emotional abusive husband- who drove round in an top of the range Audi wearing Armani suits whilst he gave her such a small "allowance" she had to stick to yellow sticker shopping, and didn't allow access to her own money. They have 2 sons together. he harassed her endlessly, bombarding her daily with abusive messages, slashed her tyres and potted her parents window where she and their kids were staying. At first she didn't withhold access - until he turned up pissed at the school to pick the boys up. Staff were amazing and refused to hand them over, he'd driven there drunk (rural school). He got aggressive, threatened staff and threw things at the school doors. School called the police, social services got involved. They decided a contact centre was best - he didn't show up. The harassment of my friend continued and eventually a judge granted a non-molestation order and he was deemed too dangerous to see his sons. To her relief he's never pushed to see them but doesn't pay maintenance.

Now what do you think he tells people down the pub? Do you think he says "I was an abusive stalker who couldn't take care of a sea monkey and I rightly have been refused access to my children". Or does he say "She's keeping me from my kids I'm completely heartbroken". Take a guess

As well as Caroline Flack, they have campaigned against Margaret Hodge, Harriet Harman, Caroline Nokes, Kate Winslet, Myleene Klass, Katie (CBBC presenter) - using various methods of intimidation.

They are, as an organisation, best ignored (rather like internet trolls) - but I rather hope their behaviour towards Caroline Flack is not ignored.

They are nothing but misogynist hypocrites - they are an organisation with known male convicted domestic abusers as members, but they attack Caroline Flack purely because she's female.

Isn't that the point though - that F4J, whether right or wrong, feel that "engaging with the system" leads to inadequate and often divisive outcomes for the father?

The charity Families Need Fathers provides help to fathers who are having custody issues.

They may have started out as a 'father's rights' organisation - and for a while, they did have influence on government policy, but they have morphed into a campaign against high profile women and are considered as a lunatic fringe by most now.

It is actually incredibly difficult to stop a determined father seeing his children, even if he is a proven domestic abuser. As my friend found out - it took her four years and thousands of pounds to stop her ex - who had criminal convictions for child abuse and rape - having access to the children. She went into this nightmare process thinking that no court would ever dream of giving such a man access to children, but found she had to fight tooth and nail to prevent it.

Also family courts are weighted in favour of abusive men - not sure why people think otherwise

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/domestic-abuse-parental-alienation-family-courts-brunel-study-a9294726.html%3famp

My ex was cruel to me in our break up, but our DD doesnt need to know the details. I've never said a bad word about him and I wouldnt.

Yes I did this too. Facilitated contact to my child’s father so much that I was practically spoon feeding the Ex, and never bad mouthed them.

Then when my child became a teenager Ex started being horrible to our child too, as he had done to me. Teenager was confused and blamed me, as Ex started to denigrate me in front of him often. My child lost some faith in me as he started to lie...

Honestly I now feel that I got it wrong. I spent a lot of time making sure our child had a good relationship with both parents. I thought that was fair and right.

Now I realise I did that at the cost of my child’s need to have a secure and happy childhood.

Put the child’s needs first, above everything, and you can’t go far wrong.

F4J puts fathers rights before their child’s needs - even the name suggests that they need justice. No they don’t. The child needs are priority and they need parents to be responsible and provide security. If all one parent is doing is stirrring conflict and strife, then that is not in the child’s best interests.

The overwhelming majority of parents who are letting down their children is fathers. I see if everywhere. From low or no maintenance. To abuse. And conflict. Or just not parenting and being disney parent instead. I get that some women are not playing fair, but it’s a very very small minority and is not what F4J are championing.

Oh my that is every parents worst nightmare. We should really be campaigning ourselves to help this poor mother
As my friend found out - it took her four years and thousands of pounds to stop her ex - who had criminal convictions for child abuse and rape - having access to the children.

Fathers for justice are a ridiculous and mostly abhorrent group, but that doesn't preclude the fact that there were and are injustices in the family courts working against decent fathers who are simply trying to get access and shared care in the best interests of their children and being thwarted by their exes and the system.

As a father who had to navigate through the courts for contact, appearing at 4 different hearings over an 18 month period against a stay at home mum who was doing everything in her power to block access and make false accusations, let me tell you that there are many inherent biases in the system, not least the make up of CAFCASS (86% female) and systematic bias (ironically the flip side to prejudice women face in the work place), as well as a grindingly slow and expensive process to get to final hearing. The starting point for contact when families split up should be a presumption of 50:50 shared care if both parties are able and willing to do so.

F4J don't speak for decent fathers, that's for sure.