Father's for justice...WT actual F

[Smithtylater]

Just checked out their instagram page (f4jofficial) after this Caroline Flack/kerry Katona thing. Wtf have they become? They seem like an extremist group trolling female celebrities with gossip nonsense .They seem to hate everyone with a vagina! I remember when they were a few blokes climbing up buildings dressed up as batman. And they are a 'charity'!!

I've must searched the charities register and can't see Fathers for Justice listed there

From memory there is more than one organisation, I'm not sure that any are currently registered charities but at least one splinter group self defines as a NFP.

They are a men's rights lobby group and claim a lot of influence in Westminster. Not sure how far it goes but I've certainly heard their propaganda spouted by male MPs.

They always seemed to me to be very childish and entitled .Appearing on buildings and bridges ,as if to say look at us poor chaps ,we cant see our DC ! Nothing said about why they got divorced and why (if true) they dont have access .Poor Caroline Flack ,I couldnt stop thinking about it all weekend ,For them to hold her up as some sort of Abuser is totally unacceptable .What is she about 8 stone ? to a well built muscular sportsman ! There seems to be some sort of sport of knocking women who are successful ,and then fall from glory by certain factions of the media and it is sad and v unpleasant .

Ive never seen anything from f4j that didn't make me immediately think, ‘and thats why the ex restricted your access.’

Only run in I ever had with them was when I taught one of the organisers sons (who would be an adult now). The father had been very abusive and this child was in hiding - new name, new area, new school and we had to work hard to keep his identity secret for the safety of the child. We had training on what to do if the dad ever turned up at school. And yet we'd see this guy being interviewed on TV and climbing onto service station buildings telling the world how unfairly he'd been treated.

Ive never seen anything from f4j that didn't make me immediately think, ‘and thats why the ex restricted your access.’

Yep!

Or "if the courts force contact this is why your child will cut all contact with you the moment they turn 18".

@Smithtylater

They have their next target...Chantelle Houghton! Tbh though would you want your child to be around Alex Reid ??!?

Have we not learnt anything about online trolling?

It's hard because it's such a personal issue. I know one guy who was very unfairly kept from his child. He's had a long battle through the courts and now does have regular contact. The thing is that's just one person - I can't therefore say that all mums who keep their kids away from their dads are behaving unfairly. And if we just go on he said/she said there's no way of telling who is a liar and who is trying to keep their kids safe.

Furthermore I think as women we're far more likely to know someone (or be someone) who's child's father has been a bit crap - ie lack of maintenance, flaky with contact. So we're more likely to think that's the norm. Whereas men obviously don't sit around thinking I'll be a bit of a shit dad, they feel like their actions are justified and they're more likely to know someone who had difficulty getting contact so they'll believe that scenario is the norm. F4j have no real idea of knowing what goes on in Chantelle Houghton and Alex Reid's life relationships. They don't know if she is denying contact or anything. All they can do is turn a media story around so it suits their agenda. A quick flick through their Instagram tells me they've done the same with Caroline flack, Meghan Markle and Cheryl Cole.

I do only know one man who was involved with f4j after his ex denied contact. He was in a relationship with a family member. And I will say good on that woman for standing firm - he was an incredibly violent and abusive liar and I wouldn't have let him within a mile of my kids either.

Please don't interpret my comment as being supportive of F4J. I absolutely am not.

I hadn’t heard much about them other than the superhero costumes until I saw something about them going after Katy from cbeebies. They said some awful things about her. To go after women like this and such personal attacks is horrible. They sound like my sisters ex who will tell anyone that listens that she keeps his daughter away from him and he’s done nothing wrong when in reality the courts decided he couldn’t even have supervised access in a contact centre due to being unable to stop himself taking recreational drugs, turning up drunk and acting erratically.

I've never had any dealing with them, but I have a friend in America who had an abusive manipulative ex. He broke up with her when she was pregnant and had some sporadic contact with their son, then out of the blue he made a bunch of malicious and false accusations to the police (where he had friends) saying that she had hurt the child. The police turned up at 2am and took the kid out of his bedroom, no warning, and gave him to the father. He was an extremely rich surgeon, and she was a low paid nurse, but she got extra jobs, crowd funded, sold everything she could find etc. She was only allowed supervised access to her son for 1 hour a week, and every week her ex tried to stop her coming. It took 4 months for her to save enough for legal help, and she pretty much lived on beans to save every penny. Eventually the court ordered that her son be returned to her full time because there wasn't a shred of evidence of harm, and her ex was later diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. So every time I see a man say he can't get access to his child I just think "bollocks". If my friend can do it in America, where legal help is so much more expensive, then you can do it here. Are you living on rice and beans? Are you working 3 jobs? Are you doing literally every single conceivable thing to force access through court? No? Then stfu. Another friends boyfriend always goes on about how he can't afford to fight for his kids in court but is out drinking every night/weekends away all the time. All these men who are so "desperate" to see their kids but can't be arsed to lift a finger to make it happen.

They are hideous.

I know at least 7/8 guys (extended family, friends of friends, colleagues etc) guys who go on about how their exes withold access. How evil they are etc. Over the years I've heard a shit load of them complain about it

I know 1 guy who is skint and almost broken by his ex flouting the constant court orders and who is fighting his arse off to see his kids. 1. Ironically his ex had a new, abusive, partner so most of his problems are actually down to another man

F4J are a bunch of assholes but for all those saying you just need to go to court for acces, It's alright saying that but it all takes time. My brother has not had contact with his son for almost 7 months. He has missed his first christmas and first birthday and even with social services involved with the mother over her drug usage he still has been unable to see his son.

He has been granted legal aid(Scotland) and has been working with the lawyer since September about 4 weeks after she started being funny with him. ignoring messages, not returning calls etc. It is a long process and it has only got to the point in the last two weeks where the solicitor has now said she can progress to court - brothers ex has just been ignoring everything that she has been sent and not engaging with the solicitor.

He has full parental responsibility and despite social services placing my nephew on the CPR because of his mum she is still calling all the shots and has moved in with her mother to prevent him being removed. It's the most frustrating, soul destroying situation I've ever had to deal with.

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings, I hope that utter cunt your friend had to deal wasnt allowed to see that child again. What a cruel thing to do to a child. That kind of think to leave a lasting impact on a young mind.

Makes me glad that my ex is too lazy to see DD. He could have as much involvement as he wants, but he chooses not to. She's 12 now so she's starting to work out for herself where his priorities lie.

^^Exactly, a friend's fiance is so desperate to see his kids that he's done.... fuck all about it. But he had enough money for holidays with her and her children and a big old ring.

I have a friend who spent more than a decade dragged through the courts but every time she took the child for contact father would make the child cry and bring him home in a temper or not turn up. He told all and sundry he was being denied access and everyone included the courts felt sorry for him and believed his sob story which was complete lies. Surprising how many women fell for it. The nonsense only stopped when the child spoke out about how he was treated but not all children are believed any more than their mothers. Abusers groom allies just as effectively as they groom victims.

It's never been about their children. Well, only so far as they can be used to get to the mother.

If they loved their children they would never behave the way they do.

It's about continued control and abuse of women.

If they give a flying fuck about their kids, I'll keel over from shock.

Quite a few of the so-called "fathers" don't have access to their children because they carry convictions for domestic violence.

Yes, they pretty much hate women.

F4J are awful. I've been around here long enough to remember when they tried to shut down Mumsnet.

Families need Fathers is a fantastic charity that actually helps parents with issues around child access.

fnf.org.uk/

All the people who are having a pop at F4J, you're shooting at low hanging fruit. So many of their main "campaigners" are ignorant over-emotional vigilante types, the same sort of people who set up paedophile hunting pages on Facebook and create creepy videos to "entrap" local people just so they can go up to a guy and start intimidating under the carapace of "moral righteousness".

The thing is, not every single case and cause that F4J espouses can be immediately dismissed just because they dress up in cheap costumes and scale buildings.

Just because most people on here can name two or three feckless dads or CSA dodgers, doesn't mean that there aren't issues with the family court system or issues with a parent unfairly blocking access.

It actually feels like the weight of those examples is what bears down on most MN'ers approach to this subject. "I don't want to listen to anything anyone says on this because my EXH was a cock who didn't pay" etc.

As long as everyone sticks their fingers in their ears, organisations like F4J and all their idiocy will exist, because they shout the loudest. If folk are willing to take their fingers out of their ears, then maybe some more measured voices and nuanced arguments will be heard.

Tali the poor kid was only 10 months old at the time. Can you even imagine the horror of having your baby taken away from you like that, by an actual fucking psychopath? Some men really are the lowest of the low. Sadly he is still allowed access but it's supervised and therefore he frequently doesn't bother (what's the fun of seeing your kid if you can't use it as an excuse to abuse your ex, eh?)

Their Instagram page f4jofficial is awful. Truly awful.

.

I remember thinking they were self obsessed idiots when they started, and I was a child then. Imagine your Dad scaling some scaffolding dressed as Batman, the poor kids were probably mortified!

‘Those poor kids’ yup that’s what DH said when he say them.