To find today’s Sunday Times front page distasteful?

[IndianaMoleWoman]

The giant neon “#mentoo” just looks like a massive dig at Caroline Flack. Whilst I agree there is much to debate, it just seems inappropriate considering the news of her death has only just come to light.

@Moosrep isn’t she some kind of z list celebrity? It’s not like she’s the president of turkey.

Do you really think journalists won't know who Caroline Flack is?!

I think this is entirely possible. I hadn't heard of her before yesterday.

@Reginabambina I haven't seen her in much but have been aware of her for many years through various outlets - CF has presented radio shows, children's TV, 2 prime time TV shows (X-Factor/Love Island), won Strictly Come Dancing as well as being noted for some of her relationships which were well documented in most media outlets. She's been "in the spotlight" for about 20 years.

There is NO WAY that a journalist wouldn't be aware of who she is!

If you bother reading the thread.

Mentoo is talking about men suffering sexual harassment in the work place. Not exclusivly at the hands of women.

It's not taking away from women. It's an issue. Not sure why people feel the need to dismiss to be honest.

@BlueEyedFloozy but surely most people wouldn’t watch tv beyond maybe some specific dramas/sports/news and wouldn’t read celebrity gossip? I’d never geared of her before today probably because I just don’t watch live tv ever and don’t read gossip columns. I’m sure that a lot of snobbish people (and let’s face it many journos are terrible for this) would never have come across her. If you’re not into low form entertainment then there is no reason why you would really.

Oh, ffs. It’s only offensive if you are the nasty minded person desperate to think the worst of everyone by linking Caroline Flack’s death with the #MenToo banner. Go sort out your own gutter of a mind and stop trying to stir up everyone else.

Yanbu Female on male violence tends to be greatly exaggerrated and repeated in the press ad nauseum when it does happen, and male on female violence is continually excused and downplayed, even by the victim; men are much more likely to report first and minor incidents. Clearly she was a very troubled individual but her partner was simply not in the kind of grave danger female victims usually are.

RuffleCrow - and there you go, making assumptions about what #MenToo is about. And spouting absolute bollocks, anyway, about the likelihood of men reporting minor incidents of violence against them by women.

Actually @kirkman Kurt admitted taking advantage of a woman/girl with a severe learning disability as his first sexual experience. He wrote about his sense of shame in his diaries but it was much more about the shame of having been so desperate for sex that he slept with her, rather than any sense that he had done something wrong. I can barely listen to Nirvana any more tbh. We should stop deifying these horrible men.

You have no argument @walkaround, you're just being aggressive.

RuffleCrow - you are creating an argument where there was none. #MenToo is not about domestic violence. And if it were, your statement that men readily report minor incidents of first time violence against them by women is entirely unsupported by any evidence.

Some people like to pretend there's a clear line between DV and SA / H when there isn't. Some people may claim men are less likely to report - this may be because the individual claiming this has not done the Freedom Programme, or simply that they are wilfully ignorant. These individuals are unable to produce any evidence to support their views, whereas the freedom programme is based around decades of research.

RuffleCrow@ - please provide the evidence, then, that men readily report women for minor incidents of domestic violence. And yes, I suspect Caroline Flack’s partner did fail to do the Freedom Programme. He also didn’t want the CPS to prosecute, though, so hardly fits your stereotype of men enthusiastically accusing women of violence.

I doubt he would have been welcome on the Freedom Programme, mind you, as a man who had been attacked by a woman rather than by another man, or as a perpetrator who wanted to change his ways.

FFS, #Mentoo has no connection to Caroline Flack.

She may have been accused of domestic violence by more than one live-in partner but #Mentoo has nothing to do with domestic violence.

#Mentoo is a movement raised in India by men who wanted to bring to the world's attention that men also suffer sexual harrassment. It was a response to #Metoo.

I'm unaware of Caroline Flack being accused of any such behaviour. People are taking offence where there is no reason to.

Why are you even talking about kurt cobain? Maybe you should start another thread?

Men in india have got some nerve, given what they put indian women through.

Not sure if people realise that freedom programme isnt well known, off MN.

I have diagnosed PTSD from the abuse I suffered. At the hands of my mother and then husband. Despite having extensive support from my gp and counselling, no one outside MN has ever mentioned it. I only know it from here.

You definitely won't e looking for or doing the freedom programme if you for feel you are being abused.

You may suffer sexual harassment at work, that's not domestic abuse. Unless the person at wok is someone you are in a relationship with as well.

They're all part of the same misogynistic culture @kirkman - it's a spectrum rather than distinct. My ex was violent but he also sexually harassed me and assaulted me daily. Which was the common experience of my fellow FP attendees. Men will do whatever they think they can get away with, if that's their mindset.

RuffleCrow

Men in india have got some nerve, given what they put indian women through.
Why is it acceptable to generalise about men in India? If some men in India have suffered sexual harrassment aren't they allowed to complain about it and let the world know they are victims too?

Don't lump a whole race together as if they are all perpetrators of criminal or immoral behaviour against women. That is racist.

i'm not lumping a race together - i'm lumping a sex class together. Given that women in india often cannot even defecate or menstruate without fear of violence i would take any movement centreing the harassment of Indian men with the same pinch of salt i take the MRA / TRA movement over here. Not to do so would be far more racist. That doesn't mean men are never victims but it is putting the problem in perspective.

It's not a competition.

Whilst, obviously society has an issue that links dv/sexual harassment etc and men usually commit these more than women, it doesnt follow we should just ignore males victims OR get shitty because men who it has happened to raise it.

It also dowsnt mean we can not treat DV and sexual harassment in the work place as seperate issues.

Men a group have huge advantages and privileges. That doesnt always translates to individual men and doesnt mean individual men need to shut up.

Neither does it mean it takes away from women suffering sexual harassment at work.

I think individual men do need to shut up actually, when they know their largely petty grievances are a) nearly always perpetuated by other men - the same men whose backs they have in all other aspects of patriarchal life and who they fail to call out until the problem affects them personally, and b) overshadowing the real issue: the lethal threat men pose women.

Añd a quick google will tell you that mentoo was not designed to compliment and give a male perspective on #metoo but as a reaction against 'false allegations' apparently made by women. Sounds familiar...

Jesus ruffle you really make me despair for my boys, I do hope you’re just another keyboard warrior and that have zero influence in any aspect of any policy, anywhere, under any circumstance.