To find today’s Sunday Times front page distasteful?

[IndianaMoleWoman]

The giant neon “#mentoo” just looks like a massive dig at Caroline Flack. Whilst I agree there is much to debate, it just seems inappropriate considering the news of her death has only just come to light.

I don't understand why the CPS is criticised though. If someone has committed a crime, then there is a legal process. Do people think that someone should be excluded from this process just because the victim does not support prosecution and the one being prosecuted is facing MH issues?

I have no idea who Caroline Flack is - the first I'd heard of her was when the BBC reported that she'd lost her job for attacking her sleeping boyfriend.

She was obviously extremely troubled and I feel hugely sorry for her family and friends, but I'm a bit uncomfortable with the outpouring of grief, and her being treated as a victim.

She assaulted her sleeping boyfriend, leaving him covered in blood. An ex has said that she was abusive. She consistently dated much younger men. If she was a man, there would be red flags flying everywhere - and male abusers commit suicide too.

I feel most sorry for her poor boyfriend, who's going to be feeling hugely guilty.

If it were a man that had cracked his partner over the head whilst she was sleeping and then went on to commit suicide I doubt people would be so sympathetic. I see her management are criticising CPS for running the trial against the wishes of the aggrieved. This is standard practice and something that absolutely should happen. It takes the responsibility away from the aggrieved. It’s something that CPS have done for years. It’s sad when anyone dies unexpectedly, whatever the circumstances and someone feeling they have no other option is terrible.

I agree.

I'm trying to be sensitive to the broader mental health issues here, but we can't rest our pursuit of assault charges on the possibility that the defendant might be suicidal.

The use of #mentoo is offensive all on its own. It's like #alllivesmatter. It's co-opting another disadvantaged group's message and using it for your own gain.

I's pretty 'distasteful' that this story is headline news at all.

Toastytoes1, when a woman is the victim of domestic violence or sexual harassment in the workplace or the street or rape or murder, there are myriad voices - male and female - hinting, suggesting or plain asserting that she must have done something to deserve, provoke, trigger, cause whatever befell her. It's a trope!

Where do you think the term victim blaming originated?

I'm sorry in advance if your question was rhetorical or ironic or intentionally disingenous, but I read your post twice and I didn't pick up any of the above.

If your question was genuine, I can only ask, “Where have you been?"

I find the mentoo wholly distasteful anyway, regardless of what Caroline is accused of.

Why when women make a stand against men sexually assaulting/harassing them do we have to have a hang on what about us men comeback?
95% of the prison population are men (not women). Violence is the number one reason, sexual is the second highest reason. Not drugs, not shoplifting. Violence and sexual crime.

X-post with borneobabe who said it much better than me!

Very sad news.

However, the one thing nobody has discussed is the fact that after whatever happened between her and her boyfriend a court case was still being pursued despite him not wanting to press charges.

Meaning that the CPS decided that there was a public interest in the Crown pursuing a prosecution despite the plaintiff not wishing to press charges.

I read The Secret Barrister over Christmas. If you live in the UK it should be required reading.

Even if just for the theoretical but credible scenario of you losing your home, job, family, finances and twelve years of your freedom because you took your significant other to a restaurant for dinner...

Everyone is talking about the psychological effects of reality TV, social media and the press.

I’d have said that having the weight of the judiciary against you in a case that the plaintiff doesn’t want to pursue and being prohibited from communicating with the most important person in your life would be a major factor in your eventual suicide too...

Soup, my “unless” was implying something!

I know. It is unclear what though given there are so many unrelated things on that front page.

(I mean, it's obviously not unclear what you're trying to say but it's utter nonsense)

I do hope her ex partners can keep their heads down and not face all this scrutiny.

I agree with Metalmidget.
She took her own life and is now a saint,

Why when women make a stand against men sexually assaulting/harassing them do we have to have a hang on what about us men comeback?
95% of the prison population are men (not women). Violence is the number one reason, sexual is the second highest reason. Not drugs, not shoplifting. Violence and sexual crime.

Judging by the incubating backlash against the CPS and media for their temerity to hold a woman to account for assaulting a man, I think there's probably reason enough to discuss it.

However, the one thing nobody has discussed is the fact that after whatever happened between her and her boyfriend a court case was still being pursued despite him not wanting to press charges.

What do we say when a woman does not want to press charges against her partner after he has allegedly beaten her?

Anyone, anyone?

I think you're reading too much into this. The Mentoo is related to an article in the magazine which will have been planned for some time. It's in no way related to the death of Caroline Flack.

Honestly I think that it's really sad that someone felt that their only escape was to commit suicide, however I do think that its disingenuous to completely ignore that she was a perpetrator of domestic abuse.
If this was a man, there wouldn't be the same outpouring of "be kind"etc.

As others have said, I suspect the meetoo hashtag would have been pre-set on the front page and as news of CF’s death came later in the newspaper production process, it was a very unfortunate coincidence they appear close together.

“ The Mentoo is related to an article in the magazine which will have been planned for some time”

Is there a bit of print that says “in the magazine”? I realise I wouldn’t see it in a screenshot.

If that’s their normal front page set up, it seems a bit odd.

If you look at the screenshot you will see the word Magazine next to the banner headline. I only knew it was in the magazine because I'm reading the digital edition and have seen the article in the magazine.

The banner headline does not appear in the digital edition.

People on here can have such obvious double standards. Caroline Flack died and we have to stop and think about her actions, the media are to blame, how dare they take the case to court, she may not have been an abuser and/or she may have been pushed.

However the minute the media portrayed Ant in a positive light how dare they forget the drink driving; Kobe Bryant died and how dare we forget the allegations brought against him; if Johnny Depp had killed himself years ago and, it has recently come to light that he may be the victim, I doubt many posters would be bashing the media/online sources or claiming we "didn't know what happened".

We'll never know what happened, why she did it, if she intended to do it.

It is sad that someone has taken their life but the newspaper wasn't doing anything malicious. The mentoo movement is about sexual harassment, and false claims of sexual harassment, against men. It has nothing to do with domestic violence or suicide.

I find #mentoo very distasteful. Why does every campaign and space for women have to be co-opted? I had a root around Twitter at some MRA threads. Quite eye opening. I’d say some will be salivating at this headline.... and a lot more.....

As for that picture of Caroline flack. Could they have found a better photo? One, which made her look together rather than in turmoil? What does that say? Nothing good imo.

The use of #mentoo is offensive all on its own. It's like #alllivesmatter. It's co-opting another disadvantaged group's message and using it for your own gain

Exactly this.

The vast majority of DV is committed by men. Including DV against men. The vast majority of violence overall is committed by men.

The CPS do not ask the victim about "pressing charges" for the very good reason that victims may be in coercive relationships or afraid of retaliation.

It is depressing how many DV myths are being echoed on some of the threads about Flack. None of us know what happened, we do know that whatever happened doesn't change the reality of DV for most women.

However, the one thing nobody has discussed is the fact that after whatever happened between her and her boyfriend a court case was still being pursued despite him not wanting to press charges.

Luckily the police pursued my ex, even though I didn’t feel I could press charges. They were right to continue and now my life is very different.

Two minds about this. On the one hand I can see why some people think all this publicity and public outpouring of grief around a media starlet, mostly famous for looking good according to the plastic conventions of our time, is pretty disgusting.

On the other hand - the deliberate recentring of men following the first ever public recognition of the daily low-grade shit that women have to wade through is par-for-course sexism, and very much a sign of our times.

@NearlyGranny I’m well aware that a lot of women are ‘blamed’ in sexual assault cases but actually in domestic abuse cases it is extremely rare these days due the the amount of understanding and awareness of male perpetrated domestic abuse; it used to be the standard of course, but these days its virtually non-existant. And that is a good thing so all I’m saying is that it should be the same for male victims also but sadly we still live in a society where male victims of domestic abuse are ignored or their suffering minimised. And if you agree that its wrong for the suffering of women to be be minimised by placing at least partial, if not full blame on them in sexual assault cases then you shouldn’t be arguing against that also being wrong to do that to male victims of domestic abuse.

The CPS would not prosecute against a victim’s consent unless there was real evidence that a serious crime had been committed. Its not uncommon for the CPS to go against a victim’s wishes but they will only do it if they have a strong enough case which means its highly unlikely that the allegations against Caroline were unfounded or untrue, regardless of how tragic her suicide is.