To wonder if a lot of people are still against drag ?

[INXS998]

Shows like Drag Race have become incredibly popular. I have tickets to see the live show in May, and I think drag culture is amazing. It shows how far we have come that such a show is so popular on TV, and I think it should be celebrated.
I asked some friends if they wanted to come to the show with me and they very firmly and quickly told me that they were not fans of that sort of stuff.
When I was a teenager, I used to think Drag Queens were just some middle-aged men on Canal street with a blonde wig and high heels, and I was quite intimidated and scared of them in a way. I wonder if some people still feel that way, and don't judge them for it, just curious.

It's not just drag queens who use the word Fish.

Drag Kings and Queens aren't "treating women" a certain way.
It's a job, and performance art. In their eyes anyway.
You are offended by this and certain words, for your own reasons. That's fine. Thats personal to you.

They're not doing this to offend you or anybody. Just their own way to express and perform

How do you feel about drag Kings?
Would you say that could be equally offensive to men and seen as treating them badly?

If any performer, drag queen or king, is derogatory in this way to women or men for the sake of performance it should not be acceptable, just as using any pejorative for a group in this way is not acceptable in life. That they do this for a job makes it worse in my opinion.

In what way are they treating women, in your opinion? I think this question has been asked a few times in different guises and it has not been answered adequately.

I am choosing to understand the meaning of the word for what it is. As I, and the majority on this thread have said, just because a drag queen uses it does not make it acceptable at all. On this we will not ever agree.

Maybe it is time for a cultural shift in this genre.

Of course we don't have to agree. As I said before we're all absolutely entitled to our own opinions.
I personally don't see female/male impersonation as derogatory.

For my friends who perform in drag, they have said many times they adore how the oposite sex move and dance.
Imitation is the highest form of flattery for them.
And the fact that it's their job and make a great living from it, the demand is there. Many people thoroughly enjoy it.

I totally understand that it's not for you.
It doesn't mean that's its "not acceptable in life" it's just not acceptable for some.

I suspect the feelings of those that don’t like it are stronger than those of the group that do, bar the performers themselves of course. Like amateur dramatics the performers having a far better time than the audience. Amazed it’s still going should have been consigned to dustbin of history years ago like Bernard manning and racist 70s sit coms or black and white minstrels.

“ How do you feel about drag Kings?”

I don’t know: so few are mainstream. As usual, men are over represented.

The only TV show that comes to mind is past French and Saunders’ sketches that a PP mentioned. Eg Dawn French as Harry Potter!

Why are there so few drag kings?

I don't give a shit how good your dancing is and how amazing your mascara is, if you call women cunts as part of an act you're a disgusting misogynistic twat.

Celebrating women my arse. And so many fawning over it. How many men go mad for drag kings i wonder?

The mental health issues mentioned a few pages back have really stuck with me.I can't remember the posters involved, but I hope you're still around. If some drag artists are using drag as a response to mental health trauma, do you think its used as an escape? A bit of light relief for distress? Is it therapeutic in some way, maybe? Getting applause and cheers must feel good if you've got a need for validation. I don't understand why the performance needs to be spiteful to get that. Why there's a need to shock when your mental health is already unsteady. A negative reaction wouldn't help someone who is fragile, would it? So is it some form of self harm instead? I think if that's the case, attending a drag show to watch someone with fragile mental health is pretty sadistic.

If performers with fragile mental health were kept off the stage, we'd be left with Brian from accounting doing Hamlet.

I meant in all areas of stage performance, not drag specifically.

I don't give a shit how good your dancing is and how amazing your mascara is, if you call women cunts as part of an act you're a disgusting misogynistic twat.

This

I'm not against it. If people want to dress in drag or watch others do so, power to them! I'm not interested by it though, so I don't watch things like Drag Race. Not my thing.

Thanks @TaniaArse but I hated all of that :(

Don't give a rat's arse about their mental health. If you need a creative outlet, do a bit of crochet or get a sketch pad and some crayons. If your creativity belittles women, you can fuck off.

To cheer up the thread - here's a fabulous Beryl Cook painting of old school drag queen Ruby Venezuela from the days when drag was still a genuine humorous subversive subculture. Now it's mainstream all the subversion and mocking of the dominant culture is gone and only tiresome sexism is left.

Its interesting how those against drag, also seem very against accepting that others have a different opinion in general.

I most definitely respect your opinions(not all your choice of words though ) even though I dont agree with them.
You should strive for this level of acceptance, it brings so much peace.

I see a lot of "fuck offs" and "twats"....
I do hope you will find some acceptance in life, or at least not feel so angry.
It must be tough being so offended all the time.

*SOME of those against drag. Excuse me.

Oh it’s “women be nice” again. Naah. Some of us are over 45 you get more straight talking and see things more clearly then. I don’t want to smile beautifulcally as men take the piss out of me thanks. Great that you’re so broad minded and saintly though well done you!

Its interesting how those against drag, also seem very against accepting that others have a different opinion in general.
I do hope you will find some acceptance in life, or at least not feel so angry.

Once you see misogyny, you can't unsee it. It does tend to make you angry, yes. I'm sure some of us would love to retreat to a rose-tinted bubble where all is well and there is no need for feminism. Or to be able to exercise that cognitive dissonance so beloved of liberal feminists which re-labels everything that mocks, objectifies or suppresses women as "empowering".

As for not accepting a different opinion, I tend to ask people for evidence before I accept their opinion as fact. The fact is that our repeated requests for evidence of claims that drag is celebratory and respectful of women have yielded nothing. An opinion is utterly worthless to anyone but the holder of it, if it fails to offer anything convincing to back it up.

Thank you kindly. It is great. I feel no anger or hatred

I'm not against drag, but I'm also not for it. I just don't care about it at all. I don't have a need to watch drag shows nor celebrate that some people dress in drag. Drag is not that important to the world.

It's not just drag queens who use the word Fish.

That's ok then. Lots of people reduce women to their 'smelly vagina' therefore that's ok.

You seem to like drag because everyone should be free to express themselves how they like, irrespective of the harm they do.

You earlier said Fish is just a word. Have you heard of hate crime? This is where you use 'words', bad words, against someone else. Standing up in court and saying 'they're just words' isn't a defence. You can get fired for using some words because they are considered hateful.

Referring to women as Fish, Cunt, Seafood Platter, Box and the plethora of derogatory, woman hating language, associated with Drag is disgusting and has real life consequences. They're not just words. People kill themselves because of words; it's called bullying.

The dehumanisation of women gets women killed and abused. It's a very real issue, not something to be dismissed as just 'word' or men being allowed to express themselves however they like. No one has the inalienable right to dehumanise others or to treat them with hate.

There are over 200 words in the English language that are derogatory towards women. How many can you name for men? Words matter. Fish is specifically associated with the Drag scene because it's a misogynist scene full of spiteful men who hate women.

"Hatred" = recognising misogyny.

This is how far society has come. There was a time when we recognised that misogyny itself was hatred.