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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Labour are not a party for women/girls

252 replies

Ikeasucks · 12/02/2020 19:56

Long-Bailey, Rayner and Nandy have all made public their support of a statement that demands the expulsion from the party of anyone who doesn’t agree with basically replacing current sex based rights/laws/social norms with gender/identity based rights - so if you think women are female, that female sports and prisons etc should be for females etc -then you are a transphobic bigot and should be thrown out of the party.

To think Labour are not a party for women/girls
To think Labour are not a party for women/girls
To think Labour are not a party for women/girls
OP posts:
GeordieTerf · 15/02/2020 04:25

I don't care about Labour because Labour don't care about me (a woman).

WhatKatyDidNot · 15/02/2020 09:29

And I would usually agree that TRAs are out of control but this is just ridiculous spite and keeping in a much worse govrenment for women.

How will the Labour Party do anything for women if they don't know who they are or are unable to count them or produce statistics for them? How will the Labour Party do anything for women if any women members who wanted to do something for women have been expelled?

ScreamingBeans · 15/02/2020 09:59

Characterising a decision to not vote for a party which treats us with contempt as "spite" is bizarrely gendered language to use to grown-ass, politically engaged women who have done the reading and been around lefty circles for decades.

Spite? Really? You've been around brocialists too long, you've taken on their misogynistic ideas of what women are and why we do things. It can't be from a principled political position that has been thought about, mulled over, discussed, in some cases agonised about, it's just female spite. (How often does that quality get attributed to men? It's for women and children). We can't possibly have arrived at a thought-through political position, can we, we must just be spiteful.

Hmm
Lordfrontpaw · 15/02/2020 10:00

Be nice, be kind. Don’t forget that now. I think it’s the law for women now.

GCAcademic · 15/02/2020 10:40

"The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

Make no mistake about the direction this party is going in, and the danger it would represent if it were actually to get its hands on power.

HelgaHere1 · 15/02/2020 10:43

Great never did vote for them, don't need to even think about it now.

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 10:48

Of course it's a party for women and girls.

Transphobics not welcome. Hopefully anti semites and sex pests chucked out soon too - if we can get a non looney Leader.

CallofDoodee · 15/02/2020 10:56

Transphobics not welcome.

Assuming you are posting in good faith, and not just here to plop and run....

How are women who want to stand up for their their right to single sex spaces 'transphobics'?

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 10:59

How are women who want to stand up for their their right to single sex spaces 'transphobics'?

I never said they were.

HighNetGirth · 15/02/2020 11:08

Starmer is unlikely to go as far as the others because he knows what the actual law on sex-based rights is, as opposed to the version frequently put about by trans rights groups.

ScreamingBeans · 15/02/2020 11:44

Suzanne Moore has written about this in the Telegraph (why didn't the Guardian run it?):

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/14/trans-rights-charter-another-way-labour-put-women-intheir-place/

am well aware that Twitter is not the real world. But then nor is the Labour Party. Out of all the issues that might be bothering the leadership contenders – anti-Semitism, a reconnection with lost voters, a plausible response to Boris Johnson – instead, a bizarre set of pledges has been issued on trans rights.

Lisa Nandy and Rebecca Long-Bailey have signed it. It suggests the expulsion of “transphobic” members from the party and says that organisations such as Woman’s Place and the LGB Alliance, which are concerned to keep same sex spaces for women, are hate groups that have to be fought.

Unsurprisingly there have since been more than 12,000 tweets under the hashtag #expelme. I suppose that to tell women we no longer have the right to autonomous organisation has always been the aim of the dude bros who run Labour. Now Labour’s women seem to have been co-opted too.

Being on the “right” side of the trans debate – where the word “transphobia’”is now applied willy nilly – has been used in this instance as a signal of purity. This does no favours to the tiny proportion of the population who are trans (estimated at between 0.01 to 0.02 per cent), most of whom simply need access to treatment and freedom from discrimination.

But this is not actually about trans folk at all. It is about a denial that women need safe spaces, whether that’s in prison or refuges. Of course trans folk are not all predators but if women don’t want to be near a penis in some places, then that is our prerogative.

Some trans activists don’t accept that biological sex exists, even though science is predicated on differences in gametes. The next step will be to remove sex and sex-based protections as a category in law in favour of gender, which becomes a moveable feast: “I am whatever gender I say I am”.

The policing around this issue by notable Labour activists is pitiful. To raise concerns about puberty blockers, women’s sports, the erasure of lesbians and gay history is to give in to an essentialist ideology that denies women’s actual experience. To query this and be told that this is a rerun of the arguments about Section 28 is an insult to those of us who fought tooth and nail against those things.

Feminism and gay rights didn’t happen via Momentum. Some of us are aware that competing sets of rights may clash and we need to talk. I merely note that this discussion is always about trans women and not trans men. Why is that? And who is the enemy of trans people? Who rapes and kills them? Feminists? Or men? The last time I saw threatening male behaviour was outside the Woman’s Place meeting at Labour conference.

Enough of us have had enough of being told what a woman’s place in the Labour Party is. We will go elsewhere. We already have.

ScreamingBeans · 15/02/2020 11:45

Could you please define the word transphobic as understood by the Labour Party, Reginafelangee?

GCAcademic · 15/02/2020 11:49

Hopefully anti semites and sex pests chucked out soon too - if we can get a non looney Leader.

I think you'll find that there is a huge and quite telling overlap between those two categoriess of members and the ones who are most loudly advocating for the removal of women's sex-based rights.

ExEUCitizen · 15/02/2020 12:19

Out of all the issues that might be bothering the leadership contenders – anti-Semitism, a reconnection with lost voters, a plausible response to Boris Johnson – instead, a bizarre set of pledges has been issued on trans rights.

This. So much this. The country is a mess. Most work does not pay enough to cover the cost of living. The state complains about the huge amount handed out in top ups but has no solutions other than to complain of the people they have forced to need them and refuses to tackle root causes. We’ve been turned into a ‘rentier’ economy, which is alternatively called an economy for the very few. Education is barely worth the huge price tag that comes with it, if you are from a poor background it is simply not worth the effort of trying. Violence against women and girls is on the rise, and girls are expected to smile about practices that would have been considered horrifically dangerous just a few years ago. And the supposed defender of the underclasses, Labour, signs up to a pledge saying women need to be more kind and accommodating of biological men with mental issues and sexual fetishes, and be more forgiving of rapists, and pretend the harassment and violence we’ve all experienced from men simply never happened or is just not as important as naming biological facts.

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 13:42

@screamingbeans - you need to ask the Labour Party that question.

I'm not their spokesperson.

ScreamingBeans · 15/02/2020 13:47

@reginafelangee You said:

Of course it's a party for women and girls. Transphobics not welcome. Hopefully anti semites and sex pests chucked out soon too - if we can get a non looney Leader.

That gives the impression you have an understanding of what the term transphobic means when used by the Labour party in this context.

So you don't? But you throw the term around anyway?

OK

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 14:01

@ScreamingBeans you are most welcome to form whatever impression you like.

But if you need an explanation a bigot is someone who is intolerant of those holding other opinions and someone who has a prejudice has unfavourable or discriminatory opinions against people with a common characteristic such as gender, race, religion etc.

The Labour Party has been over n in recent years with prejudiced sectarian bigots and I look forward to them all getting chucked out whatever their flavour of bile.

Please not these are my personal definitions and opinions.

If you want the Labour Party's definitions then ask them.

Ok.

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 14:02

Apologies for the typos. On my phone.

GCAcademic · 15/02/2020 14:03

But if you need an explanation a bigot is someone who is intolerant of those holding other opinions

So, all the Labour leadership candidates, and most of the deputy leadership ones as well, then?

reginafelangee · 15/02/2020 14:14

@gcacademic it's true a couple of them are a bit troubling on anti-semetism and I haven't bothered looking at some of the ones who have no chance in the deputy contest. But apart from that I have to disagree with you.

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/02/2020 14:17

This should be interesting:

8pm, Monday, channel 4

Live: The Labour Leadership Debate

SUMMARY
As the Labour Party comes to terms with its worst election defeat in more than 80 years, who should take over from Jeremy Corbyn as its next leader? Krishnan Guru-Murthy moderates as candidates Rebecca Long-Bailey, Lisa Nandy, Keir Starmer and Emily Thornberry go head to head in front of an audience of past, current and potential future Labour voters.

everythingisginandroses · 15/02/2020 14:26

I am not on Twitter but if I was I wouldn't use a hashtag that said #expelme, in case someone took me up on it... Pledges come and go, so do leaders. I'm not going anywhere.

ExEUCitizen · 15/02/2020 14:36

And just what will you be supporting, or even enabling, if you stay no matter what? Would you go anywhere if leaders required those they dub “transphobes” to wear yellow stars? Will you watch them be banned from all legitimate employment, or legally beaten in the streets? Everything is not him and roses unfortunately.

ExEUCitizen · 15/02/2020 14:37

gin stupid autocorrect!

AlanRickmanFanClub · 15/02/2020 15:03

I've never voted for Labour. It seems from the outside that they have a death wish. With all the women leaving in droves, there are insufficient numbers of Trans men or women to take their place in the membership, just when do they think they will ever win an election again?

RIP

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