To think Labour are not a party for women/girls

[Ikeasucks]

Long-Bailey, Rayner and Nandy have all made public their support of a statement that demands the expulsion from the party of anyone who doesn’t agree with basically replacing current sex based rights/laws/social norms with gender/identity based rights - so if you think women are female, that female sports and prisons etc should be for females etc -then you are a transphobic bigot and should be thrown out of the party.

Where is this supposed "hatred"? Can you give some examples?

@BanginChoons but if we suggest introducing extra categories in sport etc then we are saying that trans women are not women and should not be taking part in women's sport. You're verging into WrongThink there.

That's the thing, isn't it? Saying "I am not happy with this", is not hatred.
I would be concerned if someone's DH couldn't go into a changing space with his own DD but a completely unknown man, IDing as a woman, and maybe wearing a dress, could.

I think instead of this widespread intolerance of trans people, who aren't going away, we should look at solutions to the potential problems voiced, such as female safe spaces. And regarding sports, we could introduce a 3rd and 4th category. Not just shower hatred on a marginalised group who generally may already have hate for themselves to last a lifetime.

OMG.

O my fucking G.

You honestly think women haven't tried that? We screamed for third and fourth spaces. We volunteered to lobby for them. We said we'd help build the damn things. We just wanted our same sex spaces kept safe for females.

We were told we were bigots and transphobes for it. We were assaulted and threatened and doxxed for it.

You are essentially being a massive hateful transphobe too, for suggesting the same thing we did years ago. You go try that suggestion on the TRAs and see how many fires you are told to go die in/be raped to death/deserve to be murdered for your suggestion.

We've always been pro-women, not anti-trans. I hope you will come to see that.

CurbsideProphet

I think BanginChoons is missing the point that trans people, particularly transwomen have no interest in another category, they wish to be fully accepted without exception into female spaces. Any kind of sensible compromise is unacceptable to them.

Er what is wrong with saying that trans women are not women? They aren't in most people's eyes.

As for sport, perhaps have a testosterone test, so that only those with normal female levels can compete in women's sport?

We have no problem with weight categories in boxing, or age limited sports so that children can compete fairly.

Kier Starmer has signed up to a similar LBGT delcaration the states "TWAW/TMAM" - It was on twitter last night but I can't find it now.

As for sport, perhaps have a testosterone test, so that only those with normal female levels can compete in women's sport?

Anyone who has gone through male puberty should not be able to compete against women in sports where their anatomical differences give them an advantage. End of story.

I am registered blind. I lost my eyesight at age 35. I will never be able to hold a driving license, or compete in my previous sport - downhill mountain biking. I just have to accept that. I can’t impose my desires onto the rest of society and claim ‘discrimination’ when I don’t get what I want.

Sport? Is that really so important?

We currently have an utterly corrupt government who will destroy everything I love about this country.

But, sport...

For some people, yes sport is important. It must be galling for a keen sportwoman to have to compete and lose to someone who has gone through a male puberty.

I do wonder, if a 16 year old female approached Eton to ask to be admitted to their 6th form because s/he identified as male, would they be welcomed with open arms or told to get lost?

Violence against women and girls is the worst its been in 10 years- just announced (but hidden)....

And I would usually agree that TRAs are out of control but this is just ridiculous spite and keeping in a much worse govrenment for women.

Its like when people on here say 'at least they (piers fucking morgan or Katie Hopkins) are protecting women'. No they arnt, they just resent all minorities equally.

It wont be the british goveernment that makes a decision on the sports issue ffs.

I will be saving my principles for the hungry, the disabled and the other vulnerable members of society. Yes it’s bad but some things are more important.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/01/06/keir-starmer-labour-leader-leadership-trans-rights-gender-recognition-act/amp/

There's a whole ocean between being nice and accepting that people are individuals with differences and standing by and watching helplessly while a century ot two of hard-fought rifmghts are trampled in the rush to colonise women's safe spaces, single-sex zones and sporting arenas.

Not to mention what is starting to happen in schools! Women and girls and boys, too, are under threat in a whole raft of new ways, but let's just be nice to people with issues and not ask any questions or think about what other groups might need that's being lost.

As for the Labour Party, I despair. I'm a lifelong ALP/ Labour voter in two hemispheres but no more. I can't imagine who I'll vote for instead...

It was hard enough last time voting in 2019, 101 years after the suffrage bill, for a party that has still never had a substantive woman leader, just two temporary fill-ins for terms measured in months.

@BanginChoons

The problem is that, as things stand, the following statement is transphobic and - under the terms of the RL--B pledge - would get you expelled from Labour:

"I think instead of this widespread intolerance of trans people, who aren't going away, we should look at solutions to the potential problems voiced, such as female safe spaces. And regarding sports, we could introduce a 3rd and 4th category. Not just shower hatred on a marginalised group who generally may already have hate for themselves to last a lifetime."

Seriously.

And that, you see, is a problem ...

That's why the situation is bonkers ...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3822853-Insiders-story-of-how-trans-activists-in-the-Labour-Party-were-seeking-to-undermine-womens-rights

@BanginChoons the problem is the way this is framed shuts down any discussion. You can’t debate when transphobic is being shouted but there are genuine concerns that would only be sorted if women’s right campaigners and trans campaigners are allowed open (not hateful) discussion.

To be clear transgender discrimination, attacks threats are all wrong. Violence against trans men or women is wrong. Disgusting abuse for the trans community is wrong.

A discussion on keeping women’s hard won rights isn’t the same. A rape survivor deserves a safe space. A unisex space would be a great solution for those who are not bothered or those who are transitioning for all parties.

Women only shortlist being filled by trans women means the small about of representation we have is being eroded.

I think there needs to be separate trans representation. A trans woman will not have faced period poverty, maternity discrimination, an increased likelihood of sexual assault. We need a female voice.

Trans women competing against biological women is deeply unfair again. These might seem small problems but it’s women’s rights being eroded and it matters.

The crazy thing is I genuinely believe feminine and transgender rights should support each other. This policy only serves to throw women under the bus and makes working together so much harder.

A trans woman will not have faced period poverty, maternity discrimination, an increased likelihood of sexual assault. We need a female voice.
Amen to that. This first struck me when I read Paris Lees blathering on about loving catcalls when they have never been a pubescent girl experiencing the excruciating embarrassment of unwanted male attention. Choosing to 'become' a woman does not mean you understand the reality of being one.

And it also means I can’t speak for a trans woman as I have no idea what discrimination or challenges she might have faced.

It’s so frustrating these pledges set us against each other - it really helps no one.

Women and girls have historically always been sidelined and pushed out of the way for the all-important men. I’m really shaken by how easily people are being fooled into letting this happen. How easily what little protection women and girls have from men is being stripped away right in front of our eyes. How violence against women is once again not only permitted but is being openly enabled by this misogynist tinpot dictated country we live in. I seriously fear for my dd, things were never good and they are going to get so much worse.

I emailed the Labour MP I was stupid enough to vote for in December and pointed out that this meant I would no longer vote for or support Labour in any way ever again, no matter the Tory consequences. The reply was short and sweet and basically said they didn’t care.

Labour, as much as everywhere else, relies on the goodwill and unpaid labour of many women. I hope more women start refusing to enable this return of enforced 3rd class citizenship for all our daughters.

It is possible to have views and not openly discuss them on SM. Which I'm not on

So seriously, you are content to be in a party where you feel you can't discuss your political views openly? A party so tyrannical and misogynist that they will expel women for asserting reality, something which even 5 years ago, everyone knew and now everyone on the left is pretending not to know?

How puzzling. What good do you think you're doing there? If you're not expressing your views, you're doing nothing to challenge the tiny coterie of maniacs who have seized the party and so all you're doing by your unpaid labour, is enabling them. If your party elects the cowardly, dishonest people who are pretending that they believe something they don't, while you give your time and energy to them, while pretending you don't believe something you do, how are you going to sell that as an inspirational prospect to voters? Why should voters vote for that?

This isn't an attack, it's genuine questions. I'm gobsmacked by your post. And saddened. You don't know your own power. If women just en masse withdrew their free labour from Labour until it came to its senses, it would come to its senses within a couple of weeks because you're the backbone of the party and they can function without the woke rent a mob but they can't function without you.