To think people with eupd aren’t taken seriously when struggling

[User30372]

A friend of mine has repeatedly told professionals that she didn’t feel safe and was going to do something. She’s now seriously unwell in hospital and I just feel if people listened to her she wouldn’t be in that position. I’m sure she will be sent back into the community despite this. I know inpatient care isn’t the answer to everything but surely for someone at such high risk it should be considered not dismissed due to a diagnoses.

@Zurina - very interesting - I can definitely identify with that.

@TwitcherOfCurtains

Oh I much prefer that, attention needing is much more accurate too

@AmazingGreats - what do you mean by the seperation of EU and PD?

Incidentally I feel perhaps PDs should be called behaviour disorders - since it is our behaviours that ate disordered not our personalities?

But behaviour can be changed or modified. Personality is who you are, imo it can't be changed

@itsalmostspringagain - you are incorrect - I have seen some terrible books aimed at families of people with EUPD which give this impression. Black and white thinking is common with EUPD can can show itself in many ways. Swinging between love and hate is not one of the symptoms of EUPD although it can show itself through other symptoms. It is not universal, though. EUPD is primairily a serious mental illness affecting those who have a vulnarability like a smaller amygdala and grew up in an invalidating environment (abuse is also very common). It has 9 symptoms and you need 5 to get a diagnosis. One for example is unstable relationships - but some people of course won't have that symptom so healthy relationships are quite possible for some with EUPD. I was married for many years and my DH didn't have co-dependant tendencies!

so healthy relationships are quite possible for some with EUPD

I have not only lived with people with EUPD but have worked with them as well. I have not once met someone with this condition who was able to maintain healthy relationships.
The only people I see saying that they have healthy and normal interaction with others are people diagnosed with EUPD!
It's interesting that not one person has come here to say they are married to / have a parent / have a child or sibling and that there relationship is healthy

their relationship

@UndertheCedartree

What I mean is that I think that there are personality disorders (like being a psychopath) and mental health conditions (like depression).

You can be a psychopath with or without depression, but with EUPD the mental health condition and personality disorder are grouped together. I think they are two separate things that often overlap. There should be a mental health condition regarding emotional instability and a personality disorder caused by past trauma, which people often have both of, not it all being one thing. Because personality disorders cannot be cured, but EUPD can for some because they learn to manage those emotions and responses (behaviours) whereas for others it is not what they are suffering from but who they are IYSWIM. There are people with EUPD diagnosis who do not have trauma but have emotional instability, that seems wrong to me that they because of the way there mental health presents itself they are told they have something comparable to psychopaths or narcissists not to anxiety of bipolar.

@TwitcherOfCurtains - I like that phrase 'attention needing'. Attention is a human need - we all need it. Unfortunately people EUPD due to an emptiness inside or being so disassociated or so desperately over-whelmed with their emotions do at times need more attention than the average person. And it is something a lot of us feel a lot of shame around so berating us for 'attention seeking' just makes us hate ourselves even more and feel even less understood.

@itsalmostspringagain - I think personalities don't generally change - like someone being an extrovert for example. But EUPD has nothing to do with our personalities but our behaviours and these can be changed with the help of therapy.

But EUPD has nothing to do with our personalities but our behaviours and these can be changed with the help of therapy.
So do you know anyone who has been diagnosed and is now cured?
Of course not
That's because it is a PERSONALITY disorder. It IS the person.

@itsalmostspringagain - it's sad to hear your experience. What is your involvement with working with people with EUPD? As your understanding which you claim is extensive does not seem very accurate. You are aware there are 9 symptoms of EUPD - someone has to only have 5 to get a diagnosis. Therefore many people will not have the symptom ' unstable relationships'. Yet, you seem to insist everyone with EUPD has this symptom. I personally wasn't seen to have this symptom as at time of diagnosis I had been married for almost 20 years. I have a good relationship with my DC and brother and sis-in-law. Despite my DH and me being seperated we are still good friends and co-parent easily together. On my ward many of the women have good relationships with some family members or friends - others don't.

@itsalmostspringagain - god help the people with EUPD that you work with! Yes, I know people have been cured. EUPD is treatable and can be cured with medication and DBT. It absolutely is not the person. I was sexually abused as a child and developed coping mechanisms due to this - they are behaviours - they are not me! A symptom of EUPD - for example fear of abadonment - this sets off panic in us and we desperately try to stop the person leaving - that is a behaviour - it can be changed!

We only have your word for that cedar. Just as you only have mine
I think it's very doubtful that anyone will come here and say they have had a stable and healthy relationship with someone with EUPC. Whether that is a child, sibling or partner.
We all speak from our own life experiences of course

@itsalmostspringagain

This is how the NHS describes EUPD:
Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a disorder of mood and how a person interacts with others

What is a personality disorder?
A personality disorder is a pattern of feelings, thoughts and behaviours that may have been with you for a long time. Personality disorders affect the way you understand yourself, the way you react to the world around you, the way you cope with emotions and the way you navigate relationships. Having a personality disorder does not mean that there is something wrong with your personality—it simply means that you have a pattern of feelings, thoughts and emotions for a long time that cause problems.

I sincerely hope if you want to work with people with EUPD that you educate yourself. The horrible labels you've tried to give us is one thing but do you give them to those you work with? Do you tell them their illness is to do with their personality and will never change? Do you tell them there is no treatment or cure for EUPD. Your attitude is disgraceful. Do you never even look at NICE's recent guidelines??

@itsalmostspringagain - but do you not understand that if many, many people do not have the symptom 'unstable relationships' then obviously some will have stable relationships. This is nothing to do with our own experience but having an understanding of how EUPD is diagnosed and what it is and is not. And if you can't understand this you really shouldn't be working with people with EUPD.

My understanding is EUPD is primarily a disorder where the sufferer swings between love for someone one minute and hate the next

This is wrong. It's primarily about unstable moods snd unstable sense of self and identity. "Splitting" or "Black and white" thinking as you mention above can be a symptom but it's not actually neccessary to do those things to be diagnosed with EUPD.

It’s not treatable with medication. It’s the only mental illness with no cure.

Bollocks to that, I had EUPD but after following many sessions of therapy I was a changed woman and was officially undiagnosed!

I have Schizoaffective Disorder which is basically like a mixture of Schizophrenia & Bipolar. I take high dose anti psychotics & also anti depressants.
I also have Epilepsy.

However my psychiatrist also says I have certain 'traits' of EUPD. (Luckily not enough to get the full EUPD diagnosis).
Such as emotional dysregulation apparently.

Regarding the traits of EUPD, the main way it affects me is that if i fall out with someone or feel that I have upset someone then I actually feel suicidal about it (I don't actually tell anyone). I've had to remove sharp knives from my home as I would harm myself that way to relieve the internal pain.
Occasionally I also get extremely angry & lose my temper very easily ( usually for good reasons admittedly) & afterwards I again feel suicidal with guilt. This doesn't happen often now but when I was a young adult I admit I was hard to live with.
I've lived alone for 15 years now. I do have close relationships with my family & friends but if I don't hear from one of them for more than a week I think they hate me then I can't stop thinking I've done something wrong. But they have no idea I ever feel that way.

Ive never lived with a partner or had children.
I became quite ill in my early 30s & haven't had a serious relationship since as I've only dated a few men, no one I was that bothered about.

I do work part time & I feel that my problems help me to have empathy with other people.

One of the main symptoms of the schizoaffective disorder is paranoia & unfortunately I suffer from that a lot.
Because EUPD traits is on my notes I get paranoid about the mental health team, for example they're often too busy to return my (occasional) calls but I think it's because they think I'm attention seeking then I think they want me to kill myself & don't care if I'm ill.
But when I actually speak to them I don't tell them that & I'm so polite & apologetic about bothering them.

I can be quite manipulative but I recognise that & try not to be!!

At least I do recognise my faults & I'm trying to improve as a person although it's very difficult.
The anti psychotics are obviously for the schizoaffective disorder (the paranoia, hallucinations, & delusions & intrusive thoughts) but they also have the side effect of calming me down so my emotions are not so extreme which is good. I recently moved to the highest dose & I still have hallucinations but I feel very chilled out about it all.

@itsalmostspringagain - who's fault have I said my EUPD is? What behaviour of mine have you challenged?

I'm afraid you are very typical of some professionals. Extremely ill-informed and full of stigma. What gives you the right to talk about EUPD when you lack even basic knowledge? You don't even understand that it is nothing to do with personality, you don't even understand how it is diagnosed or that it can be cured. What exactly does therapy hope to achieve if nothing can change - it is just the person's personality? And you have clearly not even read NICE's guidelines. I feel extremely sorry for anyone with EUPD that you come into contact with.

Still waiting for someone who has a parent, sibling or partner with EUPD to come here and share what a joy they are to live with and how their lives have been enriched rather than ruined by the experience.

I don't know anhybody who has a family that has been enriched by aby mental health disorder or illness, do you? My mum's bipolar didn't really "enrich" my life.

@CloudsCanLookLikeSheep - that's great to hear! Hopefully some of the uneducated on this thread will take note!