To think people with eupd aren’t taken seriously when struggling

[User30372]

A friend of mine has repeatedly told professionals that she didn’t feel safe and was going to do something. She’s now seriously unwell in hospital and I just feel if people listened to her she wouldn’t be in that position. I’m sure she will be sent back into the community despite this. I know inpatient care isn’t the answer to everything but surely for someone at such high risk it should be considered not dismissed due to a diagnoses.

You talk about stigma, but then go on to compare EUPD with schizophrenia!

There are absolutely comparisons to be drawn between the two - I have every sympathy for your friend's difficulties with her mother, but to blame her mother is facile & reductive.

EUPD can & does for many involve psychosis - a major trait is dissociation. A break from reality is not a lapse in character, it is absolutely comparable to schizophrenia. In fact, the two are very often diagnosed as comorbid due to the overlap of many traits.

There is so much ignorance and incorrect information on this thread. I read the first page and as someone with EUPD I found it distressing to read so stopped. To give some insight - I self harm and do my best to hide it. I certainly don’t attention seek. I’ve also attempted suicide in the past and probably will again - I didn’t seek help or alert people although I am now pleased I survived. I’m really sorry people have relations with EUPD that have negatively impacted on them. I’d respectfully ask that you remember normal people can be shit parents too. Someone can have EUPD and be an awful parent and they are tied up with each other...but that doesn’t mean every single person with that diagnosis behaves the same way. Your experience of their EUPD may be awful, but any experience of a shit parent is awful. It doesn’t mean all people with EUPD are horrible and can’t have relationships

And more importantly - sorry OP for derailing - I had to push a long time for help. No, it’s not good - if you can assist your friend with making the calls and pushing for therapy that is probably the most useful thing you can do. Other than caring for her and being a friend as you are doing

In my experience with my mother she would develop psychosis under stress, unfortunately this could me about me (e.g. delusions I was a 'drug addict' for example) - it is so hard for all, the person and the people around, especially for example when she would call me and ask me to leave university to help her, as a teen. Or when I would be kept in the halls of residence over the weekend as she'd been calling about 'death threats"

I'm unsure about 'aren't taken seriously' as the thread title, mine was, well when psychotic anyway...but never would engage and continued to have unresolved feelings around me meaning in the end I had to go NC.
It is a very sad situation though, I wish she had / was able to have engaged with some support to stop herself taking things out on others, I have cPTSD as a result now and have had a lot of time to try and get over this and gain confidence in raising my own DC.

I haven’t blamed my friend’s mother. My friend certainly doesn’t blame her mother. She is very conflicted.

But my friend’s experiences are not invalid just because her mother has EUPD. She had a highly traumatic childhood and has been diagnosed with complex PTSD - an example, her mother more than once pretended to attempt suicide in front of her, as a small child, blaming her for why it was happening.

Her mother is at some level aware of her behaviours because she has promised many times to seek help and treatment and has never followed through.

If anyone hasn’t been taken seriously, it has been my friend. And I imagine there are many in my friend’s situation. I am talking specifically about my friend’s situation, I shouldn’t have to add a disclaimer in every post that I am not talking about everyone with EUPD. That should be obvious. But that does not negate my friend’s experiences.

And with regards to the comparison between BPD and schizophrenia, as I have said before, one is a psychotic disorder and the other isn’t.

Yes, there are overlaps in many disorders, however, whilst not all individuals with EUPD experience psychosis, schizophrenia is characterised by psychosis. Antipsychotic medication is effective for schizophrenia, it is not effective for BPD. There are many differences and it is not comparable. There is absolutely stigma attached to a schizophrenia and you do EUPD sufferers no favours by comparing the two.

Antipsychotic medication is effective for schizophrenia, it is not effective for BPD.

Untrue. Antipsychotics are often used in BPD and there is evidence of efficacy.

I shouldn’t have to add a disclaimer in every post that I am not talking about everyone with EUPD.

And you don’t have to. It would be kind though to give some thought about the negative and damaging stereotypes around mental illness that you may be perpetuating and encouraging. I do think that while these stereotypes exist people do have a responsibility to take care with their language.

I’m really sorry your friend is struggling to get treatment. But it’s not either or - it’s not a competition.

I suppose really OP the point is that many many people with different mental health issues struggle to get treatment under such a stretched system.

Antipsychotic medication is effective for schizophrenia, it is not effective for BPD.

Butting in again here I take 150mg of Quetiapine every day which is an antipsychotic along with 40mg Fluxotiene. It's very effective and saved my life.

Anti psychotic medication in lower doses than used for mania and psychosis can be very helpful for people with depression. People with only psychotic disorders tend to be on higher doses.

Antipsychotic medication is effective for schizophrenia, it is not effective for BPD.

You state this as fact but it just isn't true. You can say of any medication that it hasn't been effective for a particular person, but it absolutely is a frequently used and often effective way of managing BPD.

Also, it is possible, albeit rare, to have schizophrenia without psychosis. It’s possible only to experience the ‘negative’ symptoms of schizophrenia and not the ‘positive’, ie psychosis.

It’s very possible to be very ill with schizophrenia and not be experiencing psychotic symptoms.

You’re looking at it very simplistically as schizophrenia = psychosis.

@WarrenNicole - EUPD is very comparable with schizophrenia - they are both serious mental illnesses. And as another poster said psychosis is a symptom of EUPD.

@weebarra @Mulledwineinajug - although abuse is very common - an invalidating or critical environment can also cause EUPD.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister @weebarra

I’m not sure arguing over the comparison between EUPD and schizophrenia is that helpful. Firstly, there are multiple other psychotic disorders. Secondly, as of now, schizophrenia is classified as a psychotic disorder and EUPD is classified as a personality disorder. That doesn’t mean there isn’t a crossover in symptoms. It absolutely doesn’t mean one is more valid or serious or desirable than the other. There is serious stigma surrounding PDs and psychotic disorders. Treatment is not the exactly same but neither is lesser because of this.

@YouokHun - Autism can be misdiagnosed as EUPD too. Although for some I suspect it is a co-morbidity. There is also a prevalence of women diagnosed with EUPD while a man with the same symptoms will be diagnosed as ASPD (or paranoid schizophrenia).

That’s true Schulyer. But the fact that something isn’t primarily a psychotic disorder doesn’t mean there’s no psychosis. Bipolar disorder isn’t classified that way either but there is almost always psychosis.

@Orangeblossom78 - that sounds difficult. I hope things continue to improve for you.

@WarrenNicole - anti-psychotic medication does treat EUPD. I take 500mg of quetiapine. Many others take clozapine - both are also used for schizophrenia.

@Schuyler - I think the fact remains that schizophrenia and EUPD are both classified as Serious Mental Illnesses. One is not 'worse' than the other and of course there is cross over of symptoms. I think it is a fair comparison to make as some see schizophrenia as a serious illness but EUPD as just something wrong with someone's personality. The label 'personality disorder' - doesn't help!

@UnderTheCedartree

Yes, that’s what I said.

I still don’t think it’s helpful to compare any illness because they’re not the same. Multiple Sclerosis isn’t the same as Motor Neurone Disease but symptoms do crossover. Both are serious. The other problem I have is that no 2 patients with schizophrenia are the same, so let’s not assume everyone is the same. There have - rightly - been people on here who are justifiable upset when assumptions are made about them due to their diagnosis. People are people. You don’t need to say “yes but I have X symptom”. Treat each individual and their presentation. Treat them as a human being. That’s all.

@schuyler - well, no you said it wasn't helpful to compare but I suggested it was for the reason I outlined.

Of course everyone is different and their illnesses aren't the same. The illnesses are all diagnosed by a set of symptoms but each individual doesn't have to have all the symptoms to be diagnosed. So people's experience can be vastly different. Some people with EUPD have hallucinations, some with schizophrenia don't. Some people with schizophrenia are never hospitalised, some people with EUPD are hospitalised for years. Yes, we can't make generalisations.

My point was merely around the point that many do not see PDs as Serious Mental Illnesses - as seen on this thread. To challenge that by saying actually PDs are as serious as Schizophrenia (which everyone thinks of as serious) can help.

@UndertheCedartree

To be honest, it looked you were saying I implied PDs are not as serious as other disorders which is the total opposite of what I said. I said ”It absolutely doesn’t mean one is more valid or serious or desirable than the other.“ and I meant it!

My good friend’s mother has BPD and my friend believes that she will be in lifelong therapy trying to deal with the trauma she has experienced, to deal with the continued efforts of her mother to control her using threats of suicide and the associated guilt with not putting her mother’s needs first (ahead of her own children).

Does that not sadden you?

And you think all parents with BPD do this to their children!? I have EUPD/BPD in part due to my trauma from my mother not protecting me due to her own vulnerabilities, but she didn't have EUPD, she had Bipolar.

No, I didn't mean you. I meant generally speaking.

I've had DBT and it is amazingly effective, however before I could take any of the information in and begin to practice the skills, I had to get my medication sorted. Without the meds keeping me stable, therapy just wasn't an option. Luckily I wanted and needed to get better, not just for me but my kids, so I religiously took my meds and with the support of family, my care coordinator and work, I managed to get to a place where I am high functioning. Don't get me wrong, I still have bad days and struggle, but I have more understanding of my emotions and knowledge of how to cope. My official diagnosis is Bipolar II btw, but some psychiatrists disagreed and said EUPD. They can be comorbid so it's possible I have both, lucky me!

Above for @Schuyler